Can anyone explain these ?
PR 30:5 Every word of God proves true.
1KI 22:23, 2CH 18:22, JE 4:10, JE 20:7, EZ 14:9 God deceives some of the prophets.
JE 8:8 The scribes falsify the word.
2TH 2:11-12 God deceives the wicked (to be able to condemn them).
(Note: Every word of God cannot prove true if God deceives anyone at all; the Bible cannot be trusted if the scribes falsify the word. The first reference is mutually exclusive with the other three. Thus, the Bible cannot be the perfect work of a perfect and loving God since one or more of the above references is obviously untrue. Note also: Some versions use the word "persuade" rather than "deceives." The context makes clear, however, that deception is involved.)
EZ 20:25 God says that he intentionally gave out bad laws. (This means that God-given laws or commandments are sometimes suspect.)
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2007-09-25 03:34:42 · 8 answers · asked by Anonymous in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
isnt one of allahs 99 name the best deciever?
2007-09-25 03:43:13 · answer #1 · answered by Anonymous · 1⤊ 0⤋
Specifically to the verses mentioned:
1Ki 22:23 the word of God is not mentioned here. It is not the word of God that is deceitful here, but rather the word of a deceitful spirit.
2Ch 18:22 ditto (in fact, it's the very same event)
Jer 4:10 The author is making the point that God is deceiving the people with the *apparent* (not *actual*) promise of peace just prior to the moment of disaster. God does *not actually* promise peace here, nor in any verse prior in Jeremiah. It only *appears* to the people that God is promising peace - when, in fact, He is not. Read the context - at no point here, or prior in Jeremiah does God actually promise peace.
Jer 20:7 Again, Jeremiah was deceived, but *not* by the *word* of God. In other words, God did not promise one thing but then do another. God allowed Jeremiah to believe something that God did *not actually* speak!
Eze 14:9 Here, and more fully elsewhere, God admits to testing the people by causing a "prophet" (not a true prophet of God) to utter false prophecies. These prophets do not speak the word of God in these cases (obviously).
Jer 8:8 This is not the only known case of "scribes" falsifying the word of God. Once falsified, of course, it is no longer the word of God.
"Every word of God cannot prove true if God deceives anyone at all"
This is not a logical statement. I can deceive a child by suggesting that they watch "Frosty the Snowman". I can deceive an adult by suggesting they read the Da Vinci Code. In neither case are my words the words of deception. Likewise for the word of God. God can deceive people without speaking to them. He can be the *instigator* of deception without being the *speaker* of deception - and so it is, in these cases.
"the Bible cannot be trusted if the scribes falsify the word"
Another illogical statement. The bible *that has been falsified* cannot be trusted. Just because there are scribes somewhere, at some time, falsifying a particular bible does not mean that all bibles are untrustworthy.
"Thus, the Bible cannot be the perfect work of a perfect and loving God since one or more of the above references is obviously untrue"
As shown, this statement does not follow the dictates of logic.
Eze 20:25-26
25. "And I also gave them statutes that were not good and ordinances by which they could not live;
26. and I pronounced them unclean because of their gifts, in that they caused all their first-born to pass through the fire so that I might make them desolate, in order that they might know that I am the Lord."'
I just included one additional verse, and you can tell that God is not speaking of "statutes and ordinances" which he gave *himself*. If you read the context, it is *abundantly* clear that God is speaking of the statutes and ordinances put upon the Jews which God *expressly forbade* them to practice - by his own word, not that of another.
Your failure to understand scripture here seems to derive from your failure to understand what is meant by "the word of God". What is meant is God's own words, given *by* Him to *his* prophets. It does not mean other words, given by others to other people. It's plain English, after all. No need to read in "God's word" where it does not exist.
Jim, http://www.life-after-harry-potter.com
2007-09-28 01:15:21 · answer #2 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 0⤋
Welcome to the advanced section of Christianity!
Yes, it's true, God does not want everybody.
He has mercy on whom He will have mercy.
I recommend reading Romans 9 and give Paul some attention because he said the same thing!
Christians ought not to keep harping on people who do not want to hear the Gospel. The desire to come to God comes from God, as Jesus said:
44"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. (John 6)
Which is also why he spoke in parables:
10 The disciples came to him and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?"
11 He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him.
after that he quoted Isaiah 6:
9 He said, "Go and tell this people:
" 'Be ever hearing, but never understanding;
be ever seeing, but never perceiving.'
10 Make the heart of this people calloused;
make their ears dull
and close their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts,
and turn and be healed."
Conclusion: God does not want everybody.
That's why Christians must be discerning as to who they sprend time preaching the Gospel to.
2007-09-25 10:57:39 · answer #3 · answered by Christian Sinner 7 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Hebrew theologians had no concept of a "devil," or a spiritual adversary who opposes the will of God. They interpreted all istorical events as the unfolding of the will of God. So, if it rained, they said that God made it rained. If the king did something stupid, they said that God made them do it.
In many cases an individual decided not to believe the truth, so (by extension) they said that God had deceived them, when in fact he had deceived them by presenting them with the truth. It's like the movie Little Big Man, where Little Big Man advises Custer to go to Little Big Horn, and tells him that thousands of Indians will masacre him. Custer, trying to out-guess Little Big Man, does exactly that, and gets slaughtered. An astute theologian would say that Little Big Man deceived Custer by telling him the truth.
2007-09-25 10:44:51 · answer #4 · answered by NONAME 7 · 2⤊ 0⤋
If you were trying to learn things about things you don't understand, I would give an answer to some of the things above.
However, your attitude is that of someone resisting God. For this reason your questions are meaningless. Why are you fighting God?
2007-09-25 10:43:34 · answer #5 · answered by Fuzzy 7 · 0⤊ 0⤋
You are reading this through carnal eyes.
Jesus said to his disciples:
Blessed are you to hear what you hear and see what you have seen for many have longed to see and hear these things" I will say that God was giving them the desire of their heart they wanted to be deceived. Just as he is giving people the desire of their heart now, to stay in darkness. In the end you will see he is love.
2007-09-25 10:40:34 · answer #6 · answered by sisterzeal 5 · 0⤊ 0⤋
It's like god creating/designing humans to be curious and to think, and then expect them to just believe against all evidence - while ensuring that there is no evidence for his existence to be found.
2007-09-25 10:39:52 · answer #7 · answered by Pirate AM™ 7 · 0⤊ 1⤋
"God chooses the foolish things of this world to confound the clever."
It's reasonable. He doesn't choose TV evangelists or presidents.
2007-09-25 10:39:55 · answer #8 · answered by Thomas Paine 5 · 1⤊ 0⤋