In some gnostic teachings they state that Jesus Christ and Lucifer the angel are interchangeable... both called Morning Star and both an invocation of divine will.
How does this information factor into the Traditionalist stigma?
2007-09-25 00:51:14 · 10 answers · asked by Invisible_Flags 6 in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
I forgot to mention that there are Numerologically equal as well.
2007-09-25 00:51:50 · update #1
Q&A Angel, both made sacrifices... and Revelation is NOT literal.
2007-09-25 01:10:20 · update #2
That information factors into the more traditional christian belief systems by basically causing the traditional adherents to view gnostic teachings as radical and incorrect.
Of course, in the gnostic teachings everything is basically allegorical, so you are pretty much comparing apples to oranges, (although that may not be obvious at first glance).
You will notice that a lot of the christians will say the idea is wrong and that Jesus and Lucifer are not the same person. Most of these people will not be aware that, according to the gnostics, neither Jesus or Lucifer are actual beings at all. Both of them can be used as a symbol or allegory for the gnosis state or part of the process of reaching the gnosis state.
Jesus can be taken as symbolic of the need to sacrifice your "self", or your notion of your individuality, in order to reach gnosis. Lucifer can be seen as a symbol for the "illumination" of the gnosis state and the obtaining of the "knowledge" of God.
Of course, even when traditionalists understand the gnostic meanings, they are probably still going to disagree with them, and they're definitely going to disagree with the concept of Jesus and Lucifer being symbolic.
I'm not sure that any of the Gnostic writings actually equated Jesus and "Lucifer" specifically. The gnostics were primarily active in the first couple of centuries in the common era, (1 CE - 300 CE or so). The idea that "Lucifer" was the name of the devil didn't arise until Jerome created the Latin Vulgate version of the Bible.
In his translation of Isaiah 14, Jerome translated the Hebrew phrase "heilel ben-shachar", meaning "Helel (bright one) son of Shachar (dawn)" as Lucifer. Helel was the name of the Babylonian god of the morning star, Lucifer was the Roman god of the morning star. So, while translating, Jerome just substituted the name of a god that Latin speakers would be more likely to recognize and understand.
There is nothing in the original Hebrew text that indicates that the name of the devil is "Lucifer".
Since this misleading translation only appeared after the primary period of gnostic activity, I would say that its quite probable that only a few, later gnostics would have made such a statement.
However, given the characteristics of Jesus and the combined characteristics of the god Lucifer and the "serpent" in the Garden of Eden, its not hard to picture both Jesus and Lucifer as Prometheus figures.
2007-09-25 00:58:07 · answer #1 · answered by Azure Z 6 · 2⤊ 1⤋
This is a good question.
Would you be able to understand love without knowing hate?
By exposing the truth good people will realise the greatest joy and love. However for others the knowledge of that truth will expose what they have done and it will be the cause for their hatred and fear. Who the morning star appears as depends entirely upon the truth of one's nature.
If one has truly discovered the world they have found the carcass if the do not then hate all the world and love all the world they will never understand that they are the sons and daughters of the Bright Morning Star.
2007-09-25 02:37:48 · answer #2 · answered by James 5 · 2⤊ 0⤋
to teach us through metaphor the duality of human nature, and of the Divine...the separation and division,
which without we would not exist
the christ~ representing pure unconditional love, our connection to God
or the anti-christ~ hate, ego, fear~ the illusion of separation from God
both are a part of human nature- one does not exist without the other in this illusory realm of form
in the Absolute~ no-thing exists, or stands out. both become a part of the Oneness which is Pure love
the true understanding of this-changes everything, brings peace
2007-09-25 07:22:19 · answer #3 · answered by zentrinity 4 · 1⤊ 0⤋
Not possible. Unless you're going to say that Satan died for our sins because he and Christ were interchangeable.
The other factor is Revelation chapter 12. It depicts a battle between Michael the Archangel (the resurrected Jesus christ) and Satan. If they are interchangable, why were they fighting.
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Invisible flags: Satan made sacrifices? And ok, if you're going to dismiss Revelation, let's use matthew 4, the temptations that Jesus received from Satan. The conversations. Was Jesus talking to himself there? Or when Jesus said "the ruler of this world is coming, and he has no hold on me", referring to Satan?
2007-09-25 00:58:41 · answer #4 · answered by Q&A Queen 7 · 1⤊ 3⤋
Jesus and Lucifer are not the same person. Jesus is the son of God and Lucifer was just a fallen angel. Another mistake is that people call him the devil which he actually isn't.
2007-09-25 01:02:05 · answer #5 · answered by Anonymous 1 · 0⤊ 3⤋
Hence we do not follow the Gnostic. The Gnostics came after Christs death and stole the names of the Apostles to validate their texts.
2007-09-25 01:09:24 · answer #6 · answered by Tommy G. 5 · 0⤊ 3⤋
numerology is nothing...anyone can have the same numbers.
Jesus and Lucifer are NOT the same person
for one thing...Lucifer is not a legitimate name....it does not appear in the original hebrew...but someone started this and it stuck.......the original passage in Isaiah was referring to the king of babylon, not the devil..because the king wanted to be god, and God said..he would strike him down.....
the devil does exist, but the only acknowledged name in hebrew is satan....this appears in Job.
Jesus is the son of God, savior messiah ..of divine nature.....satan is a fallen angel....Jesus is holy...satan is evil...
2007-09-25 00:57:51 · answer #7 · answered by Anonymous · 1⤊ 2⤋
Totally wrong thinking on their parts....
Jesus Christ is the great I Am.....He is the Savior of the world.
Lucifer is the devil....
2 completely different people
2007-09-25 00:55:02 · answer #8 · answered by primoa1970 7 · 3⤊ 5⤋
keep your sails full, and set your course for truth
2007-09-25 01:00:52 · answer #9 · answered by Diver Down 3 · 1⤊ 0⤋
I would never trust the nostic gosples and they are certainly not the same person although God loved them both.
2007-09-25 00:55:09 · answer #10 · answered by Anonymous · 2⤊ 4⤋