So now our snipers are baiting Iraqi's so we can justify killing them? As an American, are you proud/ashamed?

Question

First blackwater and now this....

WASHINGTON - Army snipers hunting insurgents in Iraq were under orders to "bait" their targets with suspicious materials, such as detonation cords, and then kill whoever picked up the items, according to the defense attorney for a soldier accused of planting evidence on an Iraqi he killed. Gary Myers, an attorney for Sgt. Evan Vela, said Monday his client had acted "pursuant to orders."

The transcript of a court hearing for two of the three accused snipers makes several references to the existence of a classified "baiting" program but provides few details of how it works. A copy of the transcript was provided to The Associated Press by Vela's father.

The Washington Post, which first reported the existence of the "baiting" program, cited the sworn statement of Capt. Matthew P. Didier, the leader of a Ranger sniper scout platoon.

"Baiting is putting an object out there that we know they will use, with the intention of destroying the enemy," Didier said in the statement. "Basically, we would put an item out there and watch it. If someone found the item, picked it up and attempted to leave with the item, we would engage the individual as I saw this as a sign they would use the item against U.S. forces."

The Post said the program was devised by the Army's Asymmetric Warfare Group, which advises commanders on more effective methods in today's unconventional conflicts, including ways to combat roadside bombs.

I don't see it as criminalizing the military, these are soldiers making these statements. It seems the military demands certain actions of them and then abondons them when they get tried for a war crime. Talk about not having your back. I'm feeling for our soldiers, not for the US Army.

I can't beleive the answers so far, our military is screwing over our soldiers in court and everyone is just talking about justifying their actions, it's against military law and these soldiers are being tried for it, soldiers who went to fight for our country and risk their lives. The law isn't going to change so why are we screwing over the resource we need the most, the ones who fight for us, the soldiers.

Anyone who says Liberal press/media has their answer disqualified.

maahesoo7, been hunting plenty, but I don't shoot at random hunters for picking something up I dropped.

I person picking up something in the street left by our soldiers, even a weapon, doesn't mean they are a terrorist.

If i pick up a $100 dollar bill I find on the sidewalk does that mean I must be a bank robber??

Answer 1

I'm not an American, but who could be proud of a unjustifiable war being fought by unjustifiable methods?

Why put troops in harms way? Maybe it's time to let private enterprise (Blackwater et al) take over entirely; after all (at least on the coalition side) this war is being conducted for money, not for ideology.


UPDATE: I find it bizarre how people can view a criticism of the unjustifiable (and legally dubious) occupation of Iraq as a criticism of the people forced to carry out unjustifiable orders.

I guess it is that kind of naive, blinkered ignorance that allowed Bush to start the war, and keeps people supporting it.

"Baiting", and then executing, people who may or may not be insurgents is morally and legally indefensible ... and anyone who supports it has lost their moral compass as fully as Bush et al.

Kill them all, and let God sort them out? Wow, that is really evolved thinking.
.

Answer 2

Subjects like this are never as easy as the liberal press would have you believe. With every incursion, there are mistakes, collateral damage and FF incidents. It's war... it happens!

I ask ya this... who would ever pick up a batch of det cord other than someone that was going to use it or get it to someone that would use it? Iraqi's are told that if they find an IED, bomb type material or weapons/ammo that they should notify someone in the Iraqi or American military. If they choose to pick it up then they choose to possibly get sniped. Sorry but that's just the way it is. This country used to hold people accountable for their own actions... now they just seem to look for someone to blame!

Ya know... I see a lot of "expert" advise and opinions on here of what we should and shouldn't do. I wonder how many of these folks have actually had their butts in the sand or even bothered to serve their country???

Answer 3

I strongly believe that pride and war should never be used in the same sentence. War is like a whole new element that should be placed on the periodic table. It’s an entity that stands alone and can only truly be understood by those who are there fighting in it. As for the snipers, if they were ordered to bait their targets... than all they were doing was following the orders. As for whether its ethically correct... if you were to place an AK-47 in front of your local high school, and you observe some kid pick it up and bring it into the school, what would be your reaction. The question places you in a moral dilemma regarding what that kid would do with that weapon. Is he taking it to the principal or is he going to try and hide it in his locker to sneak it home or will he use it against his ex-girlfriends new boyfriend. I don't think it’s appropriate for non-combatants to pass judgment on a combatant because the non-combatant hasn't been forced to undergo the mental, emotional, spiritual, and physical strain that alters the combatants perspective of right and wrong. For instance all our lives were brought up under the view that killing is wrong. It’s a feeling embedded into every man, woman, and child yet we send our best and brightest to deploy and force them to put aside what they've been taught all of their lives and instruct them to kill. What else is tough is watching the vehicle in front yours which is carrying your best friend get destroyed by and IED. When the enemy plays dirty it angers and alters the combatant’s perspectives. Vengeance is human nature, when you bait someone with IED making materials or weapons and they go for the bait, it shows that there is an intent to use that weapon for something. If you were in Iraq and you see the tip of an AK-47 stick out from behind a mans cloak, are you going to draw your weapon on him? It's the same principal. He now has the weapon in his possession. The Iraqi's know that a weapon in their possession will put them in jail so why pick it up?

Answer 4

This is how we need to fight this war. People need to open there eyes. They are trained to do a job that very few of you can handle or do. What about the enemies road side bombs? What about strapping on a bomb and walking into a market place or government building? This is one answer to there tactics. What they are doing is gorilla tactics its been around and is very effective. For those who have never served and have not been there you have no right to say what is right and wrong. Just for one moment I wish the news showed the real story or at least everyone had just some of the experiences that some of us have had then you tell me what you thing. War is hell.

Answer 5

As I understood the article, there is/was a classified program (hence we are not privy to details) but the soldiers went beyond guidelines and are being tried for murder.

Since I don't know the details of the program and what orders were given as to the execution of the program, I'll have to wait and see what comes out in the trial.

However, if our snipers are targeting KNOWN insurgent areas and are able to kill them off in such a manner, I'd call it a good tactic.

Like I said, though, I'll wait for the full story before jumping to any conclusions.

Answer 6

i can not have self belief the solutions i'm examining. I handle my following comments to the people who're asserting that's alright to kill those harmless Iraqi's. that's precisely people such as you which of them are prepared to decrease your selves and your morals in basic terms out of an apprehension reaction that are the subject. you're helping the very place which you're supposedly struggling with against. the assumption of killing innocents with a view to 'point the enjoying field' is exceptionally much without redemption. And in case you haven't any longer observed, thats precisely why we are in this war interior the 1st place. i'm totally conscious that harmless everybody is killed in circumstances of war and that's a bad ingredient. I additionally understand that there exists this manner of ingredient as proper losses. yet what purpose will it serve as quickly as we initiate killing people, ANY people, in basic terms from a revenge point of view? each and each physique of those atrocities are the backdrop for many of the main terrible moments in human historic past. I truly desire that I by no ability come to understand your way of questioning and that i'm hoping much greater which you recieve some enlightenment on the priority. upload: to those that say that a lot of those harmless's have been harboring terrorists or had recommendations that bring about American casualties, permit me remind you that those strikes cause them to no longer harmless and that they at the instant are not the people to who i'm referring.

Answer 7

I would not trust the press to print the Power Ball numbers correctly the next day much less tell us whats going on with the war without a slant(towards the left). Lets not Duke Lacrosse these warriors. You know ....this war is anything but conventional and these people wont stand and fight. I believe you must adapt to their level and take what opportunities you get. But what do I know ...I'm just an ol' war horse. This I do know......the terrorist have NO RULES OF ENGAGEMENT.
Our brave troops know this too....all to well!

Answer 8

Whatever it takes. Looks like a good idea to me. Iraqi insurgents bravely fight from behind women and children, who are obviously complicit. Why not bait them? Get the cowardly sons of swine out into the open and put them down like the rabid dogs they are.

Answer 9

Would you rather have the insurgents bait our troops? I have no problem with that tactic its a WAR over there so who plays fair the insurgents? OK you win smart guy maybe with all of your vast Army experience you tell us how we are suppose to come out on top!

Answer 10

We have been baiting for a long, long time since Civil War. This is not new. God if Rules of Engagment applied today we would have lost World War II.

Answer 11

I'll always be proud of our troops. They put their lives on the line while they are there..for our country and for each of us.

I think it's funny how people are all upset about US baiting THEM, but say nothing, and don't get upset about them doing it. They've been doing it all along, and that's considered "fine".