Is Pankration the root of asian martial arts?

Question

My brother and soon-to-be sweet angel of a husband are debating over martial arts. They both won't stop until they have an answer. Both believe in hard-driven facts. So, if they don't have facts they won't stop. They're out for blood. Please, someone help my poor ears. :)

Answer 1

Great question! There existed in the ancient world an unarmed fighting art which not only compares favorably with later Asian systems" This form of martial arts existed for nearly 7 centuries before what we currently know as eastern martial arts, came along.

On many of the vase paintings depicting this in practice they use many things we associate with modern eastern martial arts. We all know that Alexander's army reached as far as India. Do you think the idea that Alexanders army brought Pankration to India is possible (and from there spread to the far east)?

This was the martial art known as pankration, a blend of Hellenic wrestling, boxing, strangulation, kicking and striking techniques, as well as joint locks. Indeed, the only practices not allowed in pankration were biting, gouging, or scratching -- all else were considered legal acts during competition..."

As a word, pankration comes from the adjective pankrates, meaning "all encompassing" or "all powers." Its earliest reference occurs in 648 B. C.,

On many of the vase paintings depicting this in practice they use many things we associate with modern eastern martial arts. History shows Alexander's army reached as far as India. Alexanders army may have brought Pankration to India there spread to the far east

"..Following the invasion of Alexander the Great into India (336-323 B.C.). The Indian fist-arts also show some Persian influence. The influence of some of these techniques, after they had been adopted in India, spread further throughout Asia in the wake of the Buddhist missionaries. Thus, for example, in Thailand, Thai-style boxing evolved, and in Java the fist-art called penchac.

The Indian martial art was introduced into China as one of the Buddhist practices, necessary in order to preserve health. T'ai Chi Chuan ('the fist-art of China') was developed by blending the Indian style with the ancient Chinese fist-art. The founder of Zen Buddhism, Bodhi Dharma, being of royal blood, was instructed in the martial arts of India from his childhood.

Invited to China by the Emperor Wu of the Liang dynasty (about A.D. 520), he traveled there, where he undertook the form of mediation known as 'nine years facing the wall' at shaolin-szu. Having founded the Zen sect (A.D. 557) at the age of seventy-six, he taught his disciples the arts of the preservation of health, the eighteen ways of Lo-han, the I-hu ching, and the Hsi-sui ching, all of which had a marked influence on Chinese theories of fighting methods. Chinese-style wrestling is called Chiao Ti Shu, or in Japanese, Kakuteijitsu...."

Humbly Posted,

Devin Willis

Answer 2

Well here's a fact from a professional fighter and soldier .Whether or not you pick it let them have a read. Martial arts when used 24-7 will end up looking very similar to each other anyway.

That is the closer you get to using it all the time life and death, the less and less difference you see between 'Karate' or 'kung fu' or 'MMA' or anything else .

I think when these arts started they all probably looked the same. The simple reason is there is a certain way for an intelligent monkey with two arms and two legs and a head to win a fight,and it just don't change much.

Regardless of whether it happens in 1000BC china, 300BC ancient greece or 1993 USA everyone comes up with the same thing.

And whatever it is that is the real 'root' of all fighting, and you can get back to that 'root' anytime you want, just by fighting all comers,all day.

And generally its ends up being punching much like a boxer, kicking much like a kickboxer, kneeing and elbowing like a mauy thai boxer, takedowns and throws like a wrestler, submissions like a BJJ guy, eyestrikes like kung fu, and a little biting thrown in too:)

A fact is most martial arts cover all the same things anyway, judo has punching, kungfu and TKD mentions grappling, jujitsu has kicking. etc. etc.

But they got changed when people no longer used them as much to survive,or wanted to change to a sport, or get rid of the punches say to make a grappling art, or get rid of the grappling to make a better spectator knockout sport, or lose 'the boring stuff' so they could look like bruce lee on the big screen in the 1960's.

Whether or not one 'arts style' influenced another in a particular stage in history is an anthropoligical discussion and I cannot help with that.

But from a fighting point of view if you chucked every martial artist together and made them fight to the death, at the end of the first years fighting I doubt you could tell whose original style was what.

Answer 3

Pankration History

Answer 4

I read an article in one of the well known MA mags about the possible ancient roots of martial arts.

The article showed a hieroglyphic relief and the inscription explained that the person being illustrated in the relief was Moses. It showed Moses grappling a kick from an attacker(?) and delivering a kick upward from under, to the groin of the attacker.

The kata Gekisai has such a kick and I saw it immediately.

This being said, there is a book called 'Jews in old China', which gives possible time-frames when the Israelite could have possibly been in China, and one of the time-frames is the Shang Dynasty, which coincides with the time the Israelites were captured by Eglon, king of the Moabites, who are historically supposed to be the Chinese.

One other thing, the symbol of Shaolin, the Man Zi, is a symbol used to identify the Jews, by some.

Oh, if you look at the Shaolin Frescoes, you will see dark skinned monks which appear to be teaching. When I compared them to the Jews in the book Jews in old China, they appeared to be the same in features and dress.

At least to me they did.

Answer 5

It's definitely what some believe, but I think it's speculation. The idea behind that theory is that it was brought to India by Alexander (like the movie) during his conquests east. This theory is backed by a form of wrestling still in practice in India that closely resembles the rules of Olympic Pankration wrestling. If this theory is correct, Indian wrestling would then have influenced the martial arts taught to Indian military officers, and would have been part of the Bodhidharma's training as an Indian noble. After becoming a Buddhist monk, Bodhidharma was looking for a way to keep his Chinese monks in good enough shape for the rigorous prayer schedule, so he created Kung Fu off his memories of the martial arts he was taught in India as a child, and then they were infused with his (as a monk, meditations) extensive observations of the movements of animals in combat. Of course, the movement of Kung Fu to Okinawa to become Karate, and into Japan and Korea is well documented, and many claim Jujitsu (which became Judo and BJJ) was heavily influenced by Shaolin monks as well.
Now, all these styles developed heavily and mixed in martial ideas already in existence in the place where they come from. (i.e. in Okinawa, there was a punching style called "Te" which changed Kung Fu into Karate) So, I guess Pankration could better be viewed as a style of wrestling that effected and influenced martial traditions already in existence throughout the world, rather than saying it was the base style. (Are the kata in Karate, obviously brought in from Kung Fu Chuans, more important than the principles of the distinctive Okinawan punch?, or is the punch Karate's base style, influenced by Chinese techniques which included kata containing wrestling moves in them)

Answer 6

martial arts, means military art, it started from armies and needing to train soldiers how to fight. Almost every country with an army has had military training for its soldiers. Different styles of fighting comes from many parts of the globe. They did not all come from asia. But it really got popular for the public when bruce lee made his movies. It used to be a closely guarded secret only for the military until bruce made it popular in the movies, now everybody knows what it is and is familiar with the martial arts. Some of the most popular styles are thai kickboxing, jiu jitsu, judo, karate, kung fu, wing chun, jeet kune do, tae kwon do, boxing, kendo, fencing, wrestling, capoeira and there are a ton of others as well just search and you can find the origin for these arts and fighting styles on the internet, and then search for a local dojo to train good luck

Answer 7

thats what some historians believe pankration was spread throughout alexander the great's conquest spreading to the monks on india who took techniques to china therefore creating kung fu and many other asian martial arts were influenced by kung fu. pankration was back around 650b.c. is its very old. but to my knowledge theres no hard facts proving or disproving it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pankration#Influence

my book Complete Idiot's Guide to Kickboxing and the Human Weapon show on the history channel suggest that pankration influenced asian martial arts, other places disagree

Answer 8

pankration root asian martial arts

Answer 9

No. History is always written from the perspective of who is writing it. Always be careful of that and keep an open mind. There is no way you could ever have enough evidence to come to a conclusion for your question. My guess is that humans had martial techniques before civilization was formed. If you study pre-history there are many instances on record of primates using sticks or rocks as weapons and protection.