A challenge to all the Richard Dawkins sympathizers?

Question

Okay, I will begin by saying that I agree with Dawkins on numerous points, but he fails on one critical point. He tries to compare Zeus, Apollo, and various other Gods to the Judeu-Christian God. Here is the problem:
1) The Greeks never claimed that Zeus appeared to them. Furthermore, they don't claim that Zeus gave them a bible. Thus, they don't have much authenticity. The Jewish people, however, claim to have gotten the bible from God. If Dawkins wants to prove Judeu-Christian philosophy, he has to prove that the bible was never given by God, but rather written by people.

2) Problem number two is that only the Greeks, and maybe a few other people, believed in Greek Mythology. Judaism gave rise to Islam and Christianity, which are almost universal. The more people believing in something, the more authenticity it has. Of course, that doesn't mean that it's true, but it rises the likelyhood that it is true.

So, Richard Dawkins has got to stop comparing Zeus to the Jewish God.

And he can't compare the Navaho beliefs, the spaghetti monster, santa claus, or any other character to the Judeu-Christian God.

Recap:

Differences are that belief Judeu-Christian God is almost universal, whereas Zeus and all those other Gods Dawkins brags about are restricted to tribes and little civilizations.

Also, in all the other cases there isn't the claim that God appeared to them or gave them a bible.

YOU PEOPLE ARE NOT ANSWERING THE QUESTION. I AM NOT SAYING THAT THIS ARGUMENT MAKES THE JUDEO-CHRISTIAN GOD RIGHT, BUT I AM SAYING THAT HE CAN NOT COMPARE CIRCUMSTANCES. HE CAN NOT COMPARE ZEUS TO THE JEWISH GOD AS IF THEY HAVE THE SAME AUTHENTICITY. ZEUS DID NOT "APPEAR" TO THE GREEKS AND HE DID NOT GIVE THEM A BIBLE. I URGE DAWKINS, OR ANY OF YOU, TO PROVE THAT THE JEWS DID NOT GET THE BIBLE. THEN WE CAN SAFELY CONCLUDE THAT THERE IS NO GOD.

Answer 1

The comparison is fine. He is comparing one mythical god to another. You are quibbling to minor details. Using your standard, he couldn't make any kind of analogy with the judeo-christian god.

It is a minor point to quibble with.

Answer 2

1) Zeus never appeared to anyone? You have to be kidding! The gods were popping up all over the place, Zeus fathered lots of mortal kids (allegedly). Zeus did not need to hand out a book of rules, if he wanted something known he went there and made his opinion clear. The Greek gods are actually better documented from more independent sources than the Christian version.

The bible has been shown to have been written by people, to claim otherwise is just foolish. The writing styles and languages it was written in this make it obvious.

2) Most of the Roman empire believed in the Greco-Roman gods. Way more than followers of Jehovah in Judea. Does that mean that from 1000 BC to 400 AD (about) that Zeus was real and Jehovah/Jesus fake?

>>> So, Richard Dawkins has got to stop comparing Zeus to the Jewish God. <<<

No he does not.

>>> And he can't compare the Navaho beliefs, the spaghetti monster, santa claus, or any other character to the Judeu-Christian God. <<<

Yes he can.

>>> Differences are that belief Judeu-Christian God is almost universal, whereas Zeus and all those other Gods Dawkins brags about are restricted to tribes and little civilizations. <<<

The Roman Empire was the biggest civilization in the world at that time, you are wrong.

>>> Also, in all the other cases there isn't the claim that God appeared to them or gave them a bible. <<<

And why does there need to be? Does this make the Mormon faith a stronger contender because the plates were directly given to John Smith?

Answer 3

Egyptians had (and still do have) the Egyptian Book of the Dead... not written by just any mere mortal, but written by a God and handed down to the Egyptians. So maybe Dawkins should use the Egyptian Gods when comparing them to the Christian one?

"The more people believing in something, the more authenticity it has"? So because a group of people believe something that makes it true? Surely you don't believe that... not with these other religions on the rise and studies showing that Christianity is on the decline (especially in Europe). So if the #'s in Christianity actually go down and, let's say, Wicca's #'s go up... That makes Wicca Authentic?

How about this.... Paganism is older, therefore it Must be right. Makes about as much sense as saying that the # of people within a religion makes it Authentic.

No, he doesn't need to stop doing anything. I don't agree with how Extreme he comes across (especially when in one interview he claimed that, to him, it would be fine to use brainwashing in order to get people to stop believing in Deities - yet complains when he thinks that religions use brainwashing to make people believe).... But he has EVERY right to say whatever the hell he wants. No matter if any of us agree or not.

Answer 4

Umm...actually a course in critical thinking would probably do you a world of good! Why does Dawkins have to prove (or rather disprove) anything? The onus of responsibility for proving anything rests on the heads of christians--and other believers in such nonsense. Dawkins theories work just fine without the existance of God--much like LaPlace's retort to Napolean's query--"Where is god in your model?" which caught Napolean so off guard--"The model works just fine without him.".

Scientists often compare modern beliefs of gods to old mythical depictions of gods--an old myth and a new myth--what's the difference? The bible was not written by any god--the newer version (the King James Version) was commissioned by King James. The older versions were compiled from previously existing documents--and those documents have been alterred over time (e.g. you won't find the "apocrypha" in the KJV--even though it was part of the bible previous to that). And Jews do not claim to have recieved the Bible from God--they claim to have recieved the Ten-Commandments from God by way of Moses, as well as the book Leviticus--the rest, they believe, was written entirely by human beings.

You're point that the more people that believe something, makes it more likely to be true is completely wrong! Almost everyone on Earth believed that objects of different sizes fell at different speeds at the time that Gallileo Gallile proved otherwise. Their refusal to believe what he proved didn't change the reality of the situation one bit!

If Judaism is/was right, then why did Christianity and Islam ever arise from it? And why do all three exist is such stark contrast to one another--each declaring war on one another since they each began. They can't all three be "universally true" and yet diametrically opposed to one another, could they? (Let me know what you think about that question when you finish that critical thinking course).

And lastly, Richard Dawkins doesn't have to do a single thing or refrain from doing anything just because you disagree with him, whether he is right or wrong! That's in our country's constitution, it's in the very first ammendment, so you don't have to read that far to find it!

Answer 5

Your arguments have flaws.

1) The bible was not written by God. It was written by men who claimed the message was given to them by God. There is a huge difference. The Jewish Torah (same as the first five books of the Christian Bible): Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy, was not written by God. It was written by Moses or someone close to him (his administrative assistant).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torah

The same applies to the Christian Bible. The Bible is a collection of stories first put together by the Council of Nicaea. The members of the council picked and chose which stories to include in the Bible and which were not worthy. This was the hand of man, not God.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea

Consider this: Jesus, never wrote anything down. He may have been an educated man, a rabbi, but he never bothered to put his teachings in writing. Not one sentence in the bible is attributed to his authorship.

2) Your second argument is simply that the majority must be right. I'm sure you realize the flaws here. Popularity of an idea is not evidence of validity for the idea. That's just practicing laziness, stupidity and ignorance.

Answer 6

1) Is a flawed point. Saying you get a book from your God, doesn't make him more valid than Zeus. It's safe to assume the bible was written by people. Rather you need to prove it was given by God, rather that people. You're twisting things my dear.

2) Is a flawed point. Being a widespread belief is not a criterium for being true, as you yourself state. After all, the majority if people once believed the Earth was flat.


*Yawn*

Answer 7

Oops! You missed that class in comparative religions.
1. The Greek myths are full of Zeus appearing to human women and fathering children by them. Hercules comes immediately to mind.
2. The main structure of the Greek myths is based on the Egyptian myths which also serve as the model of many, many ancient myth systems including some aspects of the Abrahamic religions.

So Richard Dawkins has a valid point.

Answer 8

1) So what? The existence of a book changes nothing. That the Bible was written by people has been proven.

2) The Greek gods were worshipped across Europe and the Middle-East.

Answer 9

1. Cite sources. I do not have Dawkins' work committed to memory as if it's some sort of Bible.

2. Dawkins is not, in my estimation, in need of sympathy in any way, shape, or form.

3. [sarcasm] I'm Greek. Zeus appeared to me. There. Problem solved. [/sarcasm]

Edit: Re: Added details - First of all, stop yelling like an angry child.

Authenticity and the Bible have less than nothing to do with one another. The Bible is horribly flawed and contradictory, and is more evidence against Christianity than for it.

Second, Zeus did appear to mortals according to Greek mythology, which you apparently should read a little more about before arguing about it.

(omg, you mean there's a written record!? - Yep... several of them.)

Answer 10

What? You can't be serious.
1) So the only legitimate religions are ones in which gods appear? First of all, in Greek mythology, he DID appear among the people. He boinked several of them, even (see: Herecles). Yes, they had prophets (see: oracles) who gave them the word of god. Yes, these words were written down.

2) No, no, no! You're claiming that because Judiasm gave rise to several relgions, it must be true? Well for one, that means prior to 1492, the earth really was flat! In addition, since Christianity is layered on Paganism (see: Eastre, Christmas) then Paganism is true!

(edit) Must I scream in caps too? I most certainly addressed the question. Yes, god not only appeared to humans in greek mythology, he had SEX with women, as did many of their gods. This is how Hercules was born (unlike the Disney version). Yes, they wrote their mythology down, JUST like the bible.

Next!

Oh wait! One more thing. WHO claims god handed people a bible? Don't you know how the Torah was compiled?