What say you, Praying to the Saints?The Bible directs us to invoke those in heaven & ask them to pray with us.

Question

I find it curious to see the objections which some non-Catholic Christians have to the Catholic devotion to the saints. For this, too, seems an organic continuation of Judaism, well supported by the Jewish scriptures as well as tradition. If Catholic devotion to the saints truly constituted a veiled form of idolatry, as is sometimes mistakenly suggested, than it should be more offensive to Biblical Judaism than to any other religious system, since it was the Jews who were given the honor of introducing to all of mankind the worship of the one true God, to the exclusion of all other gods or "idols", for the very first time in history. The rejection of idolatry is at the very heart of God's revelation to the Jews. There are over one hundred vehement prohibitions against idolatry in the Jewish scriptures, including, of course, the very first of the Ten Commandments: "I am the LORD your God;You shall have no other gods before me;" (Exodus 20:2-3).

If anyone should object to the veneration of the saints as a form of idolatry, it is the Jews. Yet profound veneration for saints permeates the very same scriptures in which one finds the prohibitions against idolatry. God even identifies Himself in reference to the greatest of the Jewish saints, the three Patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (later renamed Israel). When asked by Moses who He is, He replies: "I am;the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." (Exodus 3:6).

Abraham is considered the first and greatest of the Jewish saints, rightly held by the Jews in the highest veneration, because all of the blessings which God promised for all eternity for the Jews came to the Jews solely because they were the offspring of Abraham.

The same principles can be applied in understanding the Catholic veneration of the Saints.

As the Jews owe Abraham veneration as the source of all of their blessings, certainly no less do all Christians owe Mary veneration as the source of all of theirs. For as it was Abraham's pleasingness to God which brought about the Jewish blessing, so it was Mary's pleasingness to God which enabled the greatest blessing known to mankind -- the birth of God as Man, Jesus -- to come about.
Mere common decency would demand that the Jews venerate Abraham, and the Christians Mary, if only out of gratitude for the blessings which they enjoy as a result of these saints' virtue.

In prayer, it is typical for Jews to refer to God as the "God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Israel".
The Catholic who embellishes his prayers to Jesus with references to Mary thus is doing the same thing as the Jew who makes repeated reference to Abraham -- reminding God of His special love for the named person, and laying claim to some of that love as his/her descendant. And since Abraham is the father of the Jews, and Mary the adoptive mother of every disciple of Jesus, the respect shown to them is no more than the fulfillment of the fourth commandment "Honor your father and your mother." (Exodus 20:12)

Another aspect of Catholic devotion to the saints which sometimes draws criticism is the typical attention Catholics pay to the bodies of "dead" saints. Yet this form of devotion is also familiar to Jews and to the Jewish scriptures. The burial site of the three Patriarchs Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, has been venerated continually by Jews since their deaths about four thousand years ago. As Catholics make pilgrimages to the tombs of "dead" saints (sometimes enclosed in churches) to pray, so do Jews, both in Biblical times and still today.

The saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.

Latin Vulgate
Douay-Rheims Bible

Book Of Psalms
Psalm 102
20 Bless the Lord, all ye his angels: you that are mighty in strength, and execute his word, hearkening to the voice of his orders.
21 Bless the Lord, all ye his hosts: you ministers of his that do his will. 22

Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us.

Pastor Art
The scripture is Psalm 102 from the Latin Vulgate Douay Rheims Bible, .............what Bible are you using, KJV?

You seem to be very judgemental in your ignorance of Catholicism.

The authority of the Church rests on three pillars:
Scripture
Tradition
Magisterium

Scripture: The Bible is the inerrant word of God and is to be read as the earliest Christians read it: in the light of Tradition and under the guidance of those ordained to teach. The Books of the Old Testament were put together by the Hebrews in the Septuagint (ca 300 B.C.), which includes the seven Books called "Deuterocanonical" by Catholics and "Apocryphal" by Protestants, and was the Old Testament used by the Apostles. The Books of the New Testament were made canonical over time and were first listed over 300 years after the Resurrection.

How sad and very confused you are.

Answer 1

Hi, Cashelmara,

The misunderstanding about "praying" to saints stems from the ambiguity in the word "pray." Several centuries ago, pray simply meant ask. Today, pray means "have a conversation with God."

Thus, a better way to frame the question would be, can we ask the saints for help? I doubt that anyone would forbid us to ask any saintly Christian here on earth for help. Christians are continually asking other Christians for prayers, for rides, for help with music, for answers to questions.

The only remaining question is whether we can ask the saints in heaven for help. The accusation of necromancy says that Catholics are talking to the dead. But Jesus emphatically denied that saints are dead, and cited three Hebrew saints from the Old Testament (Matthew 22:31-32):

"But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob' ? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."

Since the saints are alive in heaven, we can ask them for prayers, just like any other Christian, with this added thought from James 5:16:

Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.

Cheers,
Bruce

Answer 2

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Catholics regularly bow down to idols, icons and images of Jesus, Mary and the apostles, kissing the feet of the statues and praying to them.

Historical note: The Pope deleted the 2nd of the 10 commandments so they could use statues & images in worship. They split the 10th commandment on coveting into two commandments so they could still have 10 in number. Don’t believe this? Look at the list of 10 commandments published by the Roman Catholic church! The issue here is not how the Ten Commandments are numbered, rather the issue is that most published lists of the 10 commandments do not include the words, "you shall not for yourself an idol". Open your Catholic Bible and look for yourself. Does the 2nd commandment approve of bowing down and kissing idols? "You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. You shall not worship them or serve them." Exodus 20:4-5
Nowhere does the Bible even give the idea that Mary was without sin. If when she gave birth to the purest being this world has ever seen she was still considered to be unclean. Jesus is the only person to be without sin. That is very misleading for the pope to say that she was. Many Catholics put Mary up on a pedistal when she doesnt belong there. Jesus said " I am the way, the truth, and the life. Noone comes to the father but through me." Meaning Jesus is the only one to save your soul. Mary cannot hear our prayers. The Bible also tells us to prove all things and hold fast to what is true. It doesnt matter if every pope said she was. The Bible is Gods word. Follow the word and not the system of religion. The Bible nowhere instructs believers in Christ to pray to anyone other than God. The Bible nowhere encourages, or even mentions, believers asking individuals in Heaven for their prayers. Why, then, do many Catholic pray to Mary and/or the saints, or request their prayers? Catholics view Mary and saints as "intercessors" before God. They believe that a saint, who is glorified in Heaven, has more "direct access" to God than we do. Therefore, if a saint delivers a prayer to God, it is more effective than us praying to God directly. This concept is blatantly unbiblical. Hebrews 4:16 tells us that we, believers here on earth, can "...approach the throne of grace with confidence..."

Answer 3

The veneration of angels was accepted in the Old Testament Joshua falls prostrate in homage and veneration before an angel(Joshua 5:14) as did Daniel(Daniel8:17) and Tobit(Tobit12;16). The Book of revelation bans the worship of Adoration of angels("Worship God alone") but depicts an angel offering up the prayers of the saints(Rev5:8) and the martyred saints under the Heavenly Altar interceeding for those suffering on earth (Rev6;9-11).

Talking to dead(preresurrected)saints Elijah(perhaps assumed alive) and Moses at the transfiguration,Jesus Himself gives example that talking to saints in heaven or in the Limbo Patrum(Purgatory?) is a good thing.

Answer 4

"‘And as for the dead being raised, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God said to him, "I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob"? He is not God of the dead, but of the living . . .’" (Mark 12:26-27)
"Pray at all times in the Spirit with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints, and also for me . . ." (Eph. 6:18).
"Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely . . ." (Heb. 12:1).
"And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints . . ." (Rev. 5:8).

Answer 5

Do you not know that all believers in the Lord Jesus Christ are "saints"? There are LIVING Saints, which pray for each other. Not dead ones. We cannot communicate with the dead.

Read John 17
Jesus already prayed an intercessory prayer for us! He is the only way to the Father, not anyone else, Heaven or earth!

Answer 6

you are ofcourse right but still sadly very sadly some will come up with something or another and not what the church teaches not even what scripture teaches us. confusing saying as how they claim to be "bible christians" but c'est la vie. hopefully ous sepersted brothers and sisters in christ will find the journey home, if not they are still in our prayers. and no i am not saying that only catholics can be saved, that was never a teaching of the church just that the catholic church is the fullnes of truth.

i currently read a question about once save........doesn't this mean that the person makes the decision they are saved and not the decision of jesus.........just a passing thought.

Answer 7

Great post -

I think tur b said it best:

Many Protestants seem to have a knee-jerk negative reaction to anything Catholic. No matter what. Sort of like
the whole basis of their religion is "Well, if the Catholics are fer it, by gum I'm agin' it"

All I have to say to them is take a good look at the early history of the Church (honestly) and you might end up becoming Catholic.

Answer 8

I personally have very little patience with belittling someone else's devotion. When Naaman told the prophet Elisha he wanted to take some Jewish dirt to worship on when he went back to his own country, Elisha didn't lecture him, he just said, "Go in peace." One little caveat, from an intellectual standpoint: Catholics and Jews both emphasize ritual and tradition. But please remember, the Jews were ultimately rejected. Maybe we should carefully look at exactly how that happened, to guide our own footsteps. Shalom

Answer 9

Pray directly to God and in the name of Jesus not to the saints...
There is one mediator between God and man the man Christ Jesus.

Answer 10

Praying to the saints makes perfect sense to me. They are with us in the body of Christ. One in Him, they are family. Some object that they are dead, but are they not, in a sense, more fully alive then we? Those who see God face to face in the beatific vision? They who posess the Author of life?

I think it is a beautiful tradition and reality. Even death cannot seperate any of us who love God. We are one in Him who is Love itself. That is the essence of saintly intercession.