What does this mean to you and how does it effect free will?
Romans 8:29&30-
For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image to His Son, that He might be the first-born among many bretheren; and whom He predestined, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified: and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
Yes I read all of the book.
no I'm not taking it out of context.
Our preacher preached on it today.
I have a bunch of questions but I guess my two biggest ones would be:
1) If I am predestined (and thank you, God, by the way) did I really have free will to begin with or did it just appear to be free will since it was God ordained that I was to be a Christian?
2) Why does God allow people to be born that He knows are going to hell?
Maybe these are stupid questions. Please don't be rude.
2007-09-23 08:04:34 · 9 answers · asked by christian_me 3 in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
It was God's purpose from the very begining that all men come to the knowledge of Christ. He made the way for our salvation clear from the begining and His purpose was to give us all the chance to be saved that is what is meant by presdestined. He in his fore knowledge had already pledged himself to the cross even before man was created. He predestinated the means by which we could choose.
2007-09-23 08:14:41 · answer #1 · answered by s. grant 4 · 2⤊ 0⤋
Chapter 8 is talking about (predestined) God's elect. These are those who have the seal of David. Those who know God's truth and understand it while man scurries about the planet deceiving others through false interpretation, changing, editing and mistranslating His word. For this reason God set aside those He knew before the creation of the world; those who would make a stand against the anti-christ and false teachers in the end times.
You're learning from the wrong teacher.
Ask your preacher if he/she can read Hebrew and understand it. Bet he/she can't and don't. I'll also wager your preacher doesn't read, write or understand the ancient Chaldean language either. Your preacher probably can't even read, write or understand the Greek language.
My point is, that unless a preacher is fluent in these languages it's impossible to teach the truth in Gods written word (the ancient scrolls where written in these languages).
For this reason many have turned away from God simply because the bible confounds them and there is no hope for knowing with out a teacher to teach. Many people are so embedded in their own ideologies that even if the truth literally slapped them in the face they would not understand.
Study scripture with a KJV bible, a Strong’s Concordance and http://www.shepherdschapel.com
God bless you fellow child of the one and most high God.
2007-09-23 16:03:02 · answer #2 · answered by Barney 6 · 0⤊ 0⤋
You came to the right man, alleulia!
"For Whom he foreknew, he (also) predestined to conform to the image of his son..." Two different ideas.
God is all knowing, like he's in the middle of a circlar history and see the whole thing played out at the same time; he doesn't predestine the RESULTS (or human choice) , but he does know the results.
Many ministers can't explain this properly.
2007-09-23 15:16:06 · answer #3 · answered by Thomas Paine 5 · 1⤊ 1⤋
Yes even if you are predestined he gives you free will to make the choice or not to accept it and he allows people to be born to give them the chance to change their minds For God so loved the world that he gave his only son that who shall ever believe him shall not perish but have everlasting life,and their are some that are christians and fall away from the faith God has a predestined plan,he has chosen people to that he will not let go of or let the devil have them,the predestined plan consists of a divine will which is the short simplistic way or a permissive will thats a little harder to obtain what God has for us either way he will get glory out of your life its up to you whether you accept it or not
2007-09-23 15:18:23 · answer #4 · answered by God Child 4 · 2⤊ 0⤋
The fact that you are a Christian does not mean that your name will remain in the book of life. That is why it says those that he foreknew; some persons such as the disciples and prophets were chosen before for their roles and God has indeed glorified them. Other Christians have no guarantee their names will remain the the book of life as Revelation 3:5 states your name can be blotted out of the book. That is where freewill comes into play. That is why the bible teaches us to endure to the end and work out our salvation with fear and trembling; and why there is no once saved always saved. God doesn't place people in hell, they place themselves, again freewill. How many atheists on R&S choose and often say they don't believe in hell? It has certainly been explained to them, so again freewill, they choose to disbelieve and place themselves in hell. God is so good, he has given them the breath of life, the beauty of the earth to see and enjoy, love, family, relationships, and they still deny him. They say it came from the sea. Oh, well, I think they deserve hell.
2007-09-23 15:20:43 · answer #5 · answered by Capri 1230 3 · 3⤊ 0⤋
The fruits of Sola Scriptura...
"But when He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will teach you all the truth. For He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He will hear he will speak, and the things that are to come He will declare to you." John 16:13
Most non-Catholic sects declare that the Holy Spirit is 'teaching' them the truth. However, there can be only one truth. Since the advent of Sola Scriptura and individual interpretation of Scripture, how can the Holy Spirit be in each of the thousands of sects, teaching all of them opposing viewpoints? It is to be noted that all of the following denominations teach from the same Bible, so why the differences in teaching?
1. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans the Eucharist is the true presence of Christ, and then tell the Baptists it is only a symbol?
2. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Methodists it is alright to have female ministers, and then tell the Baptists it is unbiblical?
3. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Seventh Day Adventists that Saturday is the day of worship, and then tell the Presbyterians the day of worship is Sunday and not Saturday?
4. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans that the Blessed Virgin Mary was and remains always virgin, and then tell the Baptists she had other children?
5. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Baptists, 'once saved always saved', and then tell the Church of Christ that Sola Fides is unscriptural?
6. How can the Holy Spirit tell Episcopalians to baptize infants and then tell Pentecostals infant baptism is invalid?
7. How can the Holy Spirit tell Mormons that the Holy Trinity is three separate persons, and then tell Methodists the Trinity is three persons in one GOD?
I could go on and on with the differences between non-Catholic sects, but I think you get the point. It takes only a minimum of common sense to realize that the Holy Spirit could not be speaking to each and everyone of those thousands of non-Catholic sects in the opposing ways of which I have sampled here. However, I was recently reminded that common sense is not so common anymore. It is easy to see that the 'fruits of Sola Scriptura' are not from GOD. There is no 'one fold and one shepherd' in Protestantism. Opposing teachings in these denominations is rampant, all caused by the false doctrine of Sola Scriptura and its accompanying 'individual interpretation' of Holy Scripture. Which, if any, of these sects is being taught all of the truth, as promised by Jesus Christ in John 16:13?
"And we are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom GOD has given to all who obey Him." Acts 5:32
Okay, GOD Himself has thrown down the gauntlet...TO ALL WHO OBEY HIM.
So who obeys the will of GOD? Is it the Lutherans who say the Holy Eucharist is the 'True Presence' of Jesus Christ incarnate, or is it the Baptists who say, 'It is only a symbol'?
Is it those who say we have to worship on Saturday or is it those who say worship on Sunday?
Is it those who say baptize infants or those who say not to?
2007-09-24 09:08:27 · answer #6 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 0⤋
The Bible is clear that all people are God’s creation (Colossians 1:16) but that only those who are born again(baptized) are children of God (John 1:12: John 11:52: Romans 8:16: 1 John 3:1-10).
In Scripture the lost are never referred to as children of God. Ephesians 2:3 tells us that before we were saved we were “by nature children of wrath, just as the others.” Romans 9:8 says that “those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God.” Instead of being born as God’s children we are born in sin, which separates us from God and aligns us with Satan as God’s enemy (James 4:4; 1 John 3:8). Jesus said “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me” (John 8:43). Then a few verses later in John 8:44 Jesus told the Pharisees that they were “of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do.” The fact that those that are not saved are not children of God is also seen in 1 John 3:10, “In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.”
We become children of God when we are baptized because we are adopted into God’s family through our relationship with Jesus Christ (Galatians 4:5-6; Ephesians 1:5). We see this clearly in verses like Romans 8:14-17. “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father." The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs--heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.” Those that are baptized are children “of God through faith in Christ Jesus” (Galatians 3:26) because God has “predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will” (Ephesians 1:5).
2007-09-23 15:18:47 · answer #7 · answered by tebone0315 7 · 1⤊ 0⤋
There is only "The Will", what we call free will is really a choice to know the Will or not.
2007-09-23 15:11:21 · answer #8 · answered by Premaholic 7 · 3⤊ 0⤋
we r born in His image, yes, but the freewill is by which we choose the right or wrong path to life .He knows that man has evil mind but He wants us to choose the right path that leads us to heaven for eternity by giving us the freewill to choose the path
2007-09-23 15:19:24 · answer #9 · answered by aaron 5 · 3⤊ 0⤋