Another question about Sola Scriptura (Bible only) to Mormons, Evangelical and Fundamentalist Protestant,?

Question

Some Protestants like to use 2 Timothy 3:16-17 as a "proof-text" that Sola Scriptura is a Biblical principle.....



Second Epistle Of Saint Paul To Timothy
Chapter 3
16 All scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice, 17 That the man of God may be perfect, furnished to every good work.

"All scripture,"... Every part of divine scripture is certainly profitable for all these ends. But, if we would have the whole rule of Christian faith and practice, we must not be content with those Scriptures, which Timothy knew from his infancy, that is, with the Old Testament alone: nor yet with the New Testament, without taking along with it the traditions of the apostles, and the interpretation of the church, to which the apostles delivered both the book, and the true meaning of it.

Douay Rheims Bible

Same verse from KJV:


2 Timothy 3:16–17.
"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteous- ness; That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

An examination of the verse in context shows that it doesn’t claim that at all; it only claims Scripture is "profitable" (Greek: ophelimos) that is, helpful. Many things can be profitable for moving one toward a goal, without being sufficient in getting one to the goal. Notice that the passage nowhere even hints that Scripture is "sufficient"—which is, of course, exactly what Protestants think the passage means.

Paul laying down a guideline for Timothy to make use of Scripture and tradition in his ministry as a bishop. Paul says, "But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; and that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God (Greek: theopneustos = "God-breathed"), and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works" (2 Tim. 3:14–17). In verse 14, Timothy is initially exhorted to hold to the oral teachings—the traditions—that he received from the apostle Paul. This echoes Paul’s reminder of the value of oral tradition in 1:13–14, "Follow the pattern of the sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus; guard the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us" (RSV), and ". . . what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2:2). Here Paul refers exclusively to oral teaching and reminds Timothy to follow that as the "pattern" for his own teaching (1:13). Only after this is Scripture mentioned as "profitable" for Timothy’s ministry.

The few other verses that might be brought up to "prove" the sufficiency of Scripture can be handled the same way. Not one uses the word "sufficient"—each one implies profitability or usefulness, and many are given at the same time as an exhortation to hold fast to the oral teaching of our Lord and the apostles. The thing to keep in mind is that nowhere does the Bible say, "Scripture alone is sufficient," and nowhere does the Bible imply it.

Answer 1

Protestants claim the Bible is the only rule of faith, meaning that it contains all of the material one needs for theology and that this material is sufficiently clear that one does not need apostolic tradition or the Church’s magisterium (teaching authority) to help one understand it. In the Protestant view, the whole of Christian truth is found within the Bible’s pages. Anything extraneous to the Bible is simply non-authoritative, unnecessary, or wrong—and may well hinder one in coming to God.

Catholics, on the other hand, recognize that the Bible does not endorse this view and that, in fact, it is repudiated in Scripture. The true "rule of faith"—as expressed in the Bible itself—is Scripture plus apostolic tradition, as manifested in the living teaching authority of the Catholic Church, to which were entrusted the oral teachings of Jesus and the apostles, along with the authority to interpret Scripture correctly.

Answer 2

Cashelmara, excellent exegesis on 2:Tim 3:16-17. It clearly does not say what Protestants since Luther might wish it to way. It says that scripture writers were inspired, and that the scripture is "profitable," which means neither infallible nor sufficient.

As further background, "scripture" at this time meant the Old Testament. Most of the New Testament had not even been written, much less accepted as canon by original Christians.

Paul is telling us something about the Old Testament that should be apparent to all modern readers: That while inspired, the Old Testament can't be taken at face value. Jesus clearly recognized this when he made statements like that recorded in Matthew 19:8: "Jesus replied, 'Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.'"

Original Christians and their modern heirs recognize that the Word of God is not the Bible, but Jesus Christ himself (John 1:14: The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us). Our knowledge of the Word of God is not restricted to a book. If a book were paramount, Jesus would have written one. Instead, he taught by oral word and example.

The exaltation of the collected writings in the Bible over the full revelation of Jesus in scripture and in the faithful tradition of the Church to which Jesus entrusted his revelation is a sort of idolatry.

Cheers,
Bruce

Answer 3

The authority of the Church rests on three pillars:


Scripture: The Bible is the inerrant word of God and is to be read as the earliest Christians read it: in the light of Tradition and under the guidance of those ordained to teach. The Books of the Old Testament were put together by the Hebrews in the Septuagint (ca 300 B.C.), which includes the seven Books called "Deuterocanonical" by Catholics and "Apocryphal" by Protestants, and was the Old Testament used by the Apostles.

Tradition: the teachings which the Church has preserved and passed down from Christ, His Apostles, and the unanimous teachings of the early Church Fathers (1 Corinthians 11:2, 2 Thessalonians 2:15, 2 Thessalonians 3:6).


Magisterium: the teaching authority of the Church under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The teachings of Catholic hierarchs have three different levels of fallibility:

Extraordinary Magisterium
Ordinary Magisterium
Authentic Magisterium

For the Holy Spirit was promised to the successors of Peter not so that they might, by His revelation, make known some new doctrine, but that, by His assistance, they might religiously guard and faithfully expound the revelation or Deposit of Faith transmitted by the Apostles.


Our Lord founded a Church (Matthew 16:18-19), not a book, which was to be the pillar and ground of Truth (1 Timothy 3:15). We can know what this Church teaches by looking not only at Sacred Scripture, but into History and by reading what the earliest Christians have written, what those who've sat on the Chair of Peter have spoken consistently with Scripture and Tradition, and what they've solemnly defined. To believe that the Bible is our only source of Christian Truth is unbiblical and illogical.


flandargo - seek knowledge in Catholicism.

Answer 4

i was taught that sola scriptura doesn't mean that the scripture alone contains the fullness of the christian faith, but rather that the gifts of the Spirit are given through the Word, and that the scriptures set the guidelines that we are to follow. but in many cases, to understand what is written and why, we need to study history, culture, theology, and a gang of other topics. so no, the bible alone is not our only text, but we are not to go against what is written (that's not an implication by any means. i'm not an anti-catholic).

as far as upholding tradition, st paul told us to do that in 2 timothy 2:15. otherwise, there would be no oral tradition whatsoever, no liturgy, no understanding of the Trinity, etc. i only mention that verse because i've seen catholics argue against protestants by citing it, and it seems like those same catholics are adhering to sola scriptura when they do.

and mark is right- sola scriptura is a small part of the big picture- but i was taught that there are five solas, instead of just three;
sola scriptura, sola fide, sola gratia, solus Christus, soli Deo gloria.

Answer 5

While I believe there is divine inspiration in prophesy that is not recorded in the 66 books of the Bible, I believe that all such revelation will support the teachings in the Bible and not be contrary to it, nor should any teaching from a heathen source be viewed as being inspired. The Roman Catholic Church has for example borrowed the concept of its Rosary from the Hindu Prayer beads, and uses repeating the same phrase over and over, this is contrary to the Scripture Jesus taught Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. The Catholics repeat the same words over and over, and incidentally most of the rosary is homage to Mary, not to God. Jesus addressed that, While Jesus was saying these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, "Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed." But He said, "On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it."" Luke 11:27-28 If you are a hearer and observer of the Word of God you are more blessed than Mary! Jesus said so!
Another point that Scripture makes clear and no revelation can contradict is that we are all saints, not just a few dead people, as the Pope says,The Pope says only very special dead Catholic people qualify to be called "saints". For example, Pope John Paul II could not make Mother Teresa a saint (official canonization) until after she was dead. The average Catholic in the pew is never called a "saint" dead or alive! In fact if a pew dwelling Catholic started calling himself a "saint", he would be rebuked by the parish priest! The Bible states that "Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are at Ephesus and who are faithful in Christ Jesus" Ephesians 1:1 So did Paul only write to dead people?
And how about to all who are beloved of God in Rome, called as saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ." Romans 1:7
God is the God of the Living Luk 20:38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him. Mar 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
And again there is no support fro praying to the dead as mediators for there is one mediator. 1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Answer 6

Sola Scriptura is only part of the big picture. One of the three Solas

Salvation comes from Faith Alone; Sola Fide.

Faith is a gift of Gods Grace Alone; Sola Gracia

The Gift is conveyed by the Holy Spirit through Scripture Alone; Sola Scriptura.

Mark

Answer 7

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteous- ness; That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

"That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works"

If I have something that will "thoroughly furnish me unto ALL good works", what more do I need?

By the way, Mormons don't just go by the bible so this question doesn't really apply to them.

Answer 8

We (Mormons) believe that there must be two or more witnesses in all things (in accordance with New Testament law), which by its very nature means that the Bible alone isn't sufficient. We believe that God continues to give instruction, as (among other things) there's often the need to provide that instruction in ways that can be understood by the specific people receiving it and addressing things that didn't always exist the first time something was given, something that can't always be done if you're relying solely on something that was written at least 2,000 years ago (for example, the Pharisees and Sadducees often got into trouble with the Lord in New Testament times because they would often either go on the letter of the law while ignoring the spirit of the law, or would allow oral traditions to creep into thing).

Answer 9

The true is that Jesus Christ did not left only a bible to his fallows. He left use with Church of believers with authority to teach the apostolic tradition of Christ. He does not want any one to forget his fullest teaching of salvation to man. He is all knowing and knows that devil would try to destroy his church. Devil is biggest liar and deceiver. By destroy is to divide and make his truth unknown my clouding it with different teachings. This authority comes from the mouth of Jesus Christ and that is pass thou his holy church. Bother keep it up with the help of Jesus will put this lies to light and show the truth. If they want to learn the truth show them the way if the don't want to learn let them be.

Answer 10

The BIble is not the only source of scripture. There are modern prophets who can give us revelation.

For I deign to reveal unto my church things which have been kept hid from before the foundation of the world, things that pertain to the dispensation of the fulness of times.