Does the Second Law of Thermodynamics throw a monkey wrench into the Theory of Evolution?

Question

Can one branch of science be used to successfully argue against the controversial Theory of Evolution (which some claim is now a fact)?

Dragon Dog - I just wanted to air out the argument.

Ryan Z - Interesting answer, but it covers an awful lot of ground in such a short period of time.

Mato, Snout, J.P. - Good answers, but not completely explaining why...

That Guy - Your answer is only one of two that specifically names what makes this argument moot: namely, the SUN!
So, you really tie for best answer. I am giving it to John Wayne Bundy only because he detailed it little more.

Answer 1

This argument derives from a misunderstanding of the Second Law. If it were valid, mineral crystals and snowflakes would also be impossible, because they, too, are complex structures that form spontaneously from disordered parts.

The Second Law actually states that the total entropy of a closed system (one that no energy or matter leaves or enters) cannot decrease. Entropy is a physical concept often casually described as disorder, but it differs significantly from the conversational use of the word.

More important, however, the Second Law permits parts of a system to decrease in entropy as long as other parts experience an offsetting increase. Thus, our planet as a whole can grow more complex because the sun pours heat and light onto it, and the greater entropy associated with the sun's nuclear fusion more than rebalances the scales. Simple organisms can fuel their rise toward complexity by consuming other forms of life and nonliving materials.

PS: Those "some" that claim Evolution is a fact is almost the whole of the world's scientific community (i.e., recognized scientists, not like Kent Hovind et al), plus people like me, who like to see beyond dogmatic thought.

Answer 2

Just off-the-cuff, my new friend and "contact" : Entropy seems to say that everything will become increasingly random, disorganized, chaotic, and wasted. [The "Big Chill" at the end of the "Big Bang" Spectrum] Basically, though, Life does not behave like random gaseous Steam ! (No surprise there- LOL!) Do you know about "Boltzmann's Brain" ? You can google it. B. surmised that future evolution of the entire universe might result in "partial" portions of (an) original universe, since by random chance, some molecules might group together in more organized fashion than randomized gasses would behave. The ridiculous ~reduction ad absurdum ~ conclusion is that isolated human brains might someday float around in vacuous space, hallucinating reality. To me, this shows that the universe is one , intelligent, self-aware Cosmos, (I'm a Pantheist), rather than an accidental agglomeration of random molecular events. There you go. Nice joke, for us whose everyday minds are rather gaseous already ! Jim

Answer 3

No. If the Second Law of Thermodynamics was able to disprove Evolution, then the motor in every car would be unable to function.

Second Law does not say all things tend towards disorder. It says that entropy increases. Order can increase so long as entropy increases in a larger amount. This is how heat engines (such as a car's motor) works. The order of moving in one direction is offset by huge amounts of thermal and chemical entropy.

Answer 4

DRINK!
Evolution does not violate thermodynamics. If it did, it would have been discarded as a viable theory long ago. The second law applies to an entire system. For the earth, the entire system includes the sun. You know, that bright thing, where we get our energy from? So the entire entropy of the solar system increases over time, while locally, here on earth, it can decrease because of the constant input of energy from the sun!

Answer 5

entropy is not real, it is only the lack of understanding that man has for the given movemets of a set of objects, or events. it may seem that there is a great amount of entropy in a highschool cafeteria, but really if you can slow it down you can observe all the conversations, and understand them all coherently; also a wrench in you question. physics is in its own world when dealing with evolution, because evolution does not even claim to cover abiogenesis, let alone the big bang.

Answer 6

Only if they misinterpret the second law of thermodynamics. At any rate law is a misnomer. It's a theory too. I wish science would start making ridiculous, unprovable or deniable assertions based on nothing but what some guy wrote for their positions so we could quit having these arguments.

Answer 7

No. Not any more than it makes it impossible for a complex organism to grow from a single cell.

And if you believe it does, then you need to explain yourself.

But yes, if evolution contravened laws of physics then one or the other would have to give. Fortunately for both, it doesn't. You might need to get an explanation of the second law of thermodynamics from a scientist.

Answer 8

You can argue all you like about *why* the universe is the way it is, but it's an observable fact that the properties of matter lend themselves to self-assembly and self-organisation. Neutrons and protons and electrons naturally come together to form atoms, because the forces they exert on each other compel them to do so. Atoms naturally bind together to form molecules according to the properties of chemical bonding. It's an observable fact that given a supply of component atoms and the input of energy, complex molecules such as amino acids will form spontaneously. This is because atoms with free chemical bonds are unstable. No-one decides which atoms to stick together and in what configuration, it just happens because of the properties of their chemical bonds. You only have to look at the pattern of ice forming on a frozen window, or examine the intricate symmetry of snow crystals, to see atoms spontaneously self-organising in this way.

The second law of thermodynamics (SLoT) says that heat will not, of itself, flow from a cold body to a hot body, and more generally that real world processes always act to minimise potential or, to use the correct terminology, to maximise entropy. In fact, order arises from chaos precisely *because* the SLoT is true.

If you run a trickle of water at a constant rate into a bowl of soapy water, you get many uniformly sized bubbles, and those bubbles will coalesce into a regular honeycomb pattern on the surface of the water. They don't do that because someone is putting each bubble in its correct place, they do that because order is a more stable state than disorder in this case. Potential is minimised and entropy maximised by the bubbles forming the lowest energy configuration, and this happens to be an ordered hexagonal pattern. This is in accordance with the SLoT. Try it! :-) If the trickle of water doesn't work very well, blow gently through a straw into the water and you will get a perfect stream of uniformly sized bubbles.

If you pour a mixture of randomly-sized rock (from pebbles through gravel right down to fine sand) into a column of water, and leave for a few minutes, the result is a deposit on the bottom sorted by particle size - Largest at the bottom, smallest at the top. The order arises because the largest pebbles have the greatest potential (i.e. ratio of weight to water resistance) when deposited in the water, and the finest sand has the least. Again, order arises through the minimisation of potential and the maximisation of entropy, in accordance with the SLoT.

Neutrons, protons and electrons form atoms because of the SLoT, and complex molecules arise from atoms and simple molecules also because of the SLoT.

There are many other examples in physics, geology, cosmology and so on, but I'm sure you get the idea: Far from violating it, order from chaos is perfectly consistent with the SLoT.

Answer 9

Survival of the fittest is observable fact. Evolution is a testable fact. Natural Selection is a pseudo-religious concept.

Answer 10

Of course it does. Evolution teaches that everything is evolving upwards towards greater complexity. The 2nd law of Thermodynamics states that everything, including our sun etc, is running out, deteriorating -aka increasing entropy. This clearly supports the teachings of the Bible.
Not only is it the 2nd law of Thermodynamics which clearly shows evolution to be fraudulent and impossible, but every known law of operational science also does the same thing.
Sorry folks, but our sun actually causes an even greater increase in entropy because of harmful radiation and UV rays. If God hadn't created our atmosphere to be as protective as it is, all life would die immediately
To deny that increasing entropy is taking place everywhere in this universe is to stick ones head in the sand and deny the obvious truth. Everything, everything, everything is wearing out and dying. Nothing, nothin, nothing is evolving upwards towards greater complexity, but it is all moving towards disorder. Do you really think the sun will shine forever? It's a star, and like all stars it too will die out.
The law of biogenesis also proves evolution is impossible. Life only comes from life and can not come from non-life. I'll say it again, every known law of operational science prove evolution is impossible.