Question for jehovah Witnesses regarding the 144,000?

Question

As Witnesses, you reject John's listing of the 144,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel as allegorical, even though you accept the number he listed as literal. That being said, how do you know that John's light wasn't brighter regarding the 144,000 than the writer of the Book of Numbers and that the listing of tribes he gave was actually the right one? That would seem to be the most plausible assumption given your doctrine of the light always getting brighter...especially since the name of the book is "Revelation" for crying out loud!

To mah: no, I think the light just got brighter for John! Why isn't that a plausible explanation? it explains so much for JW's in other places. Why not here?

Kindle: Jehovah Witness doctrine is that whenever they need to "adjust" a past teaching, they go ahead and do so with the disclaimer that "the light is brighter now than in the past." I was asking them to apply this logic to the teaching of the 144,000. I agree with your assessment of the 144,000, by the way.

debbo and line dancer,, that's okay..i see you can't answer the question without checking with an elder or supervisor first. go check and then come back.

DEBBO, I serve Jesus Christ of the bible.
YOU serve a false christ invented in Brooklyn new york.

As I already said, Debbo..if you had an answer , you'd give it. That's the same reaction I get when your friends ring my doorbell. I even followed them down the street once, asking them questions.

Answer 1

There's probably little I could add to what has already been said. I don't really know too much about what the JW's teachings are, but I do know that every false religion one way or another attacks (either by denying or diminishing) the deity of Christ

"A few question for Greg M. How much do you hate the JW's? 
What lengths would you go to, to discredit or put them down? Surely whom you serve must be well pleased".

I don't see anything hateful in this question I like the civil tone he has maintained. Sometimes when we have a good point to make, but we present it in a confrontational manner, we miss our chance to make a difference. For many of us, that sort of charity doesn't come easily, and it is a very useful skill to have. It amuses me that JW's go door to door and preach what they think is the true gospel to people, but the JW's on Y-answers find it hateful that some guy over the Internet is asking valued questions about their religious doctrine. How ridicules is that?

Answer 2

I am not a Jehovah Witnesser, but I was taught that the 144,000 would be 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel that would witness to the others during the Millennium period. I understand that there will be those coming out of the Millennium who will be saved by the testimony of the Jewish people. I'm not sure what you are saying about the light getting brighter, but then as I said before I am not a JW. There's only one way to God--Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no man cometh unto the Father but by me. Anyone who accepts this and has a personal relationship with the Savior will never perish. Shalom!

Answer 3

what's it with regard to the 144000 going to heaven? "additionally, he measured its wall, one-hundred and 40-4 cubits, in accordance to a guy's diploma, on the comparable time an angel's." What with regard to the others tens of millions of Jehovah Witnesses interior the international? “however the meek ones themselves will own the earth, and that they'll surely locate their beautiful delight interior the abundance of peace.” additionally what with regard to the billions of others who've already died? "do no longer marvel at this, because of the fact the hour is coming wherein all those interior the memorial tombs will pay attention his voice and dad out, people who did stable issues to a resurrection of existence" and how do the 144000 get chosen? "God chosen the silly problems with the international, that he ought to place the smart adult men to shame; and God chosen the susceptible problems with the international, that he ought to place the stable issues to shame; and God chosen the ignoble problems with the international and the flaws appeared down upon, the flaws that are no longer, that he ought to hold to no longer something the flaws that are, merely so no flesh ought to boast interior the sight of God." And the place is biblical evidence for this? Revelation 14:3 "and that they are making a song as though a clean song in the past the throne and in the past the 4 residing creatures and the elders; and no person replaced into waiting to grasp that song however the hundred and 40-4 thousand, who've been offered from the earth."

Answer 4

Because the twelve tribes of Israel, some were faithful, some were not, if you check the names of the twelve and compare them to the twelve in Revelation, you will see that there is a difference, thus the twelve tribes in Revelation, are those of the Spiritual Israel. And in reading the bible and meditating on the context of numbers, and the 144,00, helps us to understand that.

Answer 5

If you notice, the 12 tribes John listed in Revelation are NOT the same 12 tribes list in Numbers. So there for it must be taken as figurative. but the number 144,000 is listed again in different verses, so can be taken as a literal number!
I guess. . .I am not sure. . . I guess 144,000 is a real number because the WT says it is. . . so there!!!

Answer 6

To Greg and Kindle:

What proof do you have of this statement?

By Kindle that Greg agreed to--
"I understand that there will be those coming out of the Millennium who will be saved by the testimony of the Jewish people."

Just because there is a group of people witnessing does NOT inherently mean ANYONE will repent. (Remember Noah preached righteousness and NO ONE repented.)

Please show me WHERE exactly are those who repent during this period of witnessing--instead I see verse after verse that no one repents.

God repeats three times (3 is a number of significance in scripture)--Revelation 9:20, "And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet REPENTED NOT of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:"

Revelation 16:9, "And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they REPENTED NOT to give him glory."

Revelation 16:11, "And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and REPENTED NOT of their deeds."


Where are the two of you seeing a repentance?

I'd really like to know.

Answer 7

Harpazo = Rapture

END-TIME BIBLE PROPHECY

The Messiah Lord Jesus said BIRTH PANGS would signal the time of the end (Matthew 24:8). There are NINE birth pangs, they are all PRE-TRIBULATIONAL and the 1st three already occurred.

The first birth pang was worldwide conflict coupled with famines and earthquakes (Matthew 24:7-8). Worldwide conflict was fulfilled in 1914-1918, major famines happened in 1918-1921 and most of the world’s major earthquakes began to occur since 1900.

The second birth pang was the restoration of a Jewish State (Ezekiel 20:33-38; Ezekiel 22:17-22; Ezekiel 36:22-24; Zephaniah 2:1-2). This was fulfilled in 1948.

The third birth pang was Jewish control of the Old City of Jerusalem (Revelation 11:1-2). For the third Jewish Temple (Tribulation Temple) to be rebuilt, Jerusalem needs to be under Jewish control and this was accomplished in the Six Day War in 1967.

The fourth birth pang will be the Ezekiel 38 war. Russia, allied states of Iran, Ethiopia, Somalia, Germany and Armenia will invade Israel. God will miraculously destroy the invading army by earthquake, civil war among the invading soldiers, pestilence, blood, flood, hailstones, fire and brimstone. This will bring a revival in Israel where many Jews will turn to the Lord, and Israel will spend 7 years and 7 months burying the bodies and burning for fuel the military equipment left behind (Ezekiel 39:9-16).

The 5th birth pang will be the development of a one world government (Daniel 7:23-24).

The 6th birth pang will be the splitting of the one world government into 10 kingdoms and this Ten Kingdom Stage will continue until mid-Tribulation (Daniel 7:24).

The 7th birth pang will be the revelation of the Antichrist (II Thessalonians 2:1-3; Daniel 7:24).

The 8th birth pang will be a period of peace and false security that will be shattered by the Tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:1-3).

The 9th and final birth pang before the Tribulation is the signing of the 7-year covenant between Israel and the Antichrist. THIS EVENT IS WHAT BEGINS THE (7-year) TRIBULATION - NOT THE RAPTURE!

The Rapture of the Church (1 Thessalonians 4:16-18) is also a pre-tribulational event (Luke 21:34-37; 1 Thessalonians 1:9-10; 1 Thessalonians 5:1-10; Revelation 3:10; Revelation 19:6-8). The fact that the Church is not mentioned in any of the Tribulation Scriptures proves the Rapture is pre-tribulational. All raptured Christians will receive glorified bodies (Romans 8:22-23; 1 Corinthians 15:50-54)) and it can happen at any second.


THE FIRST HALF OF THE TRIBULATION (SUPPORTING VERSES IN REVELATION 6-9 AND 17)

The Ministry of 144,000 sealed Jewish believers will bring many throughout the world to accept Christ.

There will be a powerful Ministry of Two Witnesses who will also be anointed Jewish believers.

A one world religious system (Babylon the Harlot) will rule. Under this one world religious system, many who are saved during the Tribulation will suffer persecution and death.

The Political system of the 10 kings of the one world government will continue.

During the first half of the Tribulation there will also be war, worldwide famine, death (1/4 of the world’s population will die), a huge earthquake, a blackout and a meteor shower. 1/3 of earth’s dry surface will be destroyed, 1/3 sea life and salt water will be destroyed, a fallen angel called Wormwood will make 1/3 of earth’s fresh water bitter, 1/3 of earth’s natural light sources will be destroyed, there will be another blackout and demons in the form of “locust-scorpions” will come up out of the abyss led by Abaddon their king and they will inflict harm and pain for five months upon those who are not sealed by God (unbelievers). Another demonic invasion will occur and the demons involved will be led by four fallen angels who will be released from the Euphrates River and this army will kill 1/3 of the earth’s population.


MID-TRIBULATION (SUPPORTING VERSES IN REVELATION 10-14 AND 17)

The Antichrist will war against the 10 kings, and during the war the Antichrist will be killed.

Satan will be cast out of the atmospheric heavens onto earth and will resurrect the Antichrist.

The Antichrist will kill 3 kings (the kings of Syria, Egypt and Mesopotamia) and the 7 other kings will submit to him.

The Antichrist will kill the Two Witnesses in Jerusalem and the wicked people will celebrate this event. Three and a half days afterwards, God will resurrect the Two Witnesses and take them up to Heaven and the people who celebrated will become terrified. The city of Jerusalem where the murder of the Two Witnesses occurred will then suffer an earthquake which will kill 7,000 people.

The False Prophet will receive from Satan the power to perform great miracles and will deceive many. The False Prophet will command all people to worship the Antichrist and have persons create an image to the Antichrist. The False Prophet will use his satanic powers to give it life and the ability to speak. The False Prophet will cause those who refuse to worship the Antichrist and the image to be killed.

The False Prophet will issue his own counterfeit seal known as the Mark of the Beast and it will be placed on all those who surrender to the Antichrist’s authority and accept him as god. Those who refuse to take this mark will not be able to buy or sell. Those who take this mark will spend eternity in the Lake of Fire.

The Antichrist will break the seven-year covenant he made with Israel, cause the sacrifices to stop, sit in the Jewish Temple, declare to the world that he is really God and set up an idol called the Abomination of Desolation in the Temple (Daniel 9:27; Daniel 12:11; Matthew 24:15-16; 11Thessalonians 2:3-4; Revelation 13:11-15).

Through the Antichrist and the False Prophet, Satan will attempt to destroy the Jews once and for all but he will fail because 1/3 of the Jews will succeed in fleeing into the wilderness. These Jews who escape will accept the Lord Jesus as their Saviour during the Tribulation (Zechariah 13:7-9) and while they are in hiding, God will miraculously provide for them (Zechariah 13:8-9; Isaiah 41:17-20). Divine intervention will also destroy the pursuing army.


THE SECOND HALF OF THE TRIBULATION (SUPPORTING VERSES FOUND IN REVELATION 15, 16, 18, 19, 20)

In the second half of the Tribulation, those with the Mark of the Beast will suffer skin sores, the remainder of sea water and fresh water will be destroyed, the sun will cause terrible burns and the wicked will blaspheme God. There will be yet another blackout and persons will suffer gnawing pains.

Babylon will be the center of world economy and political system but Babylon will be swiftly destroyed by fire and become uninhabitable for man.

The Antichrist will locate the Jews who sought refuge in the wilderness and surround them with his armies to wipe them out. The Lord Jesus will then descend from Heaven with His angels and Saints. He will come with great glory riding upon a horse and will destroy the Antichrist, the False Prophet and all of their armies. After this, a loud voice will cry out “It is done!” followed by the greatest earthquake in the earth’s history and hail weighing 120 pounds will fall.

At the end of the Tribulation, there will be another blackout, the stars will fall from the sky and the heavenly bodies will be shaken (Matthew 24:29), the Antichrist and the False Prophet will be thrown into the eternal Lake of Fire and Satan will be cast into the Abyss and bound for 1,000 years.


THE MILLENNIUM

The Lord Jesus will reign over the entire earth during the Millennium. The Jewish and Gentile believers who survive the Tribulation will go on to populate the Millennium. Believers who died before and during the Tribulation and believers who were raptured will be present on earth during the Millennium and because they will have glorified bodies they will not reproduce. All believers will be given special tasks by the Lord Jesus (Revelation 20:4-6). There will be no wars (Isaiah 2:2-4), animals will return to the Edenic state and become vegetarians (Isaiah 11:6-9), people will not labour in vain but eat what they plant and inhabit what they build, there will be renovations in the heavens and earth and there will be righteous and unrighteous children born during the Millennium (Isaiah 65:17-25).

At the end of the Millennium, Satan will be loosed from the Abyss and will deceive and gather the unrighteous for a war against the righteous. This will be his final attempt to destroy the righteous and when the unrighteous of the Millennium surround the good people, God will send fire down from Heaven which will suddenly and massively annihilate all of the wicked people. Satan will then be cast into the Lake of Fire where he will remain in torment for eternity (Revelation 20:7-10).


THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT

The Great White Throne Judgment will be the next main event. The old heavens and earth will be done away with and all will stand before God’s throne to be judged (Revelation 20:11-12). Those whose names are not found written in the Book of Life will be cast into the Lake of Fire which will be their final and eternal abode (Revelation 20:14-15).


THE ETERNAL ORDER (REVELATION 21 AND 22)

Those whose names are found in the Book of Life will enjoy paradise with God forever. The heavens and earth will be made new and the New Jerusalem will come down upon the earth making the earth like Heaven. All curses from the fall will be removed and the earth will be inhabited by the Triune God (The Father, Son and Holy Spirit), all angels and all of the righteous. The seas, moon, night and sun will be done away with and the glory of God will illuminate the earth. The River of Life will flow from God’s throne, the Tree of Life will bear health-giving fruits and leaves and the name of Jesus will be on the foreheads of all of the righteous.


God’s Plan of Salvation for Us
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZkDk1GZ7do

Answer 8

A few questions for Greg M. How much do you hate the JW's?
What lengths would you go to, to discredit or put them down? Surely whom you serve must be well pleased.

Answer 9

Still have this fixation for JW's, I see. Do you have meaningless questions about other religions that you don't really want answers for?

Answer 10

To Quote GM(better Idea Man) "I'm (4) CRYING OUT LOUD" ! ! !