Please read the whole question. I have noticed this being a problem here lately.
I asked a question the other day about penance and had several Catholics answer. As I now understand it you confess to the priest and are given penance. Doing the penance is necessary in order to be forgiven. To me this seems to be a doctrine of works. That you earn your salvation. That if you do not do these works you are not saved. This seems to go against what is taught in the Bible.
To preempt this gambit being used. I know James teaches works and I agree we should have works. If you have faith the works will naturally follow. Not works that save us but works that we do because we love God.
So on to my question since the Bible is clear that salvation is by faith alone. Then why do catholics and some others believe they have to earn their salvation by works? Penance is works.
Scripture to follow in additions.
2007-09-08
05:30:12
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8 answers
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asked by
Bible warrior
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Society & Culture
➔ Religion & Spirituality
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
2007-09-08
05:30:26 ·
update #1
Quailman - You will find no where in scripture that penance is commanded or even recommended. Your example for Peter I don't see as penance or works. I see it as Jesus showing Peter that all was forgiven. It was Jesus showing His love for Peter not Jesus making Peter work for his salvation.
2007-09-08
05:41:37 ·
update #2
spiritroaming - I agree if we have faith we will have works. However it is not the works that save us. It is the faith. Also the idea of once saved always saved is not one I believe in the least. You can lose your salvation.
2007-09-08
05:47:59 ·
update #3
PaulCyp - I don't know. The verse I quoted above makes it pretty clear it is by faith and not works. Plainly says it in fact.
2007-09-08
05:54:26 ·
update #4
spiritroaming - you state that baptism saves. What about the thief on the cross?
2007-09-08
05:57:36 ·
update #5
The Cub - First when quoting scripture try to make sure you give the correct location. It is James 2:14-26 not James 3. Second I fully admit we will have works if we are saved. Works that help people. Saying the rosary or so many our fathers is pointless. It is works that serve no point whatsoever.
As to Luther adding the word alone. That is not needed there and the verse still means the same thing. As does the verse I quoted above.
2007-09-08
06:27:57 ·
update #6
Tomas - I want to leave this question open a bit longer but expect 10 points for the statement of salvation. I agree with it totally. Once we are saved we will have works because we choose to work for Christ. Because we love Him we want to do good for Him. We will do works. But it is not the works that save us.
2007-09-08
06:51:39 ·
update #7
Ideally we don´t confess to the priest, like you said, but to Christ himself who only uses the priest as a ¨screen¨, as his representative, but personally works in our souls.
(this is well described in the "Divine Mercy" devotion, spread by John Paul II).
The dispute over salvation has been resloved between Catholic and Lutheran theologians in a joint statement signed in 1999, also approved by the World Methodist Conference in South Corea, last year.
It reads like this: "By grace alone, in faith in Christ's saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping us and calling us to good works.
Penance is work, as you said. But it is a work inspired by God, intended to be done freely, without reservation in response to the graces received from Jesus, who is infinitey merciful. If you haven´t received these graces, don´t say penance, but confession is a sacrament that ensures that you do receive it if you ask for it.
... all the best to everybody.
2007-09-08 06:37:50
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answer #1
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answered by the good guy 4
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The Bible is NOT "clear" that salvation is by faith alone. If it was, then surely the Christian Church, which had already used and studied the Bible for over a thousand years before the advent of Protestantism, would have noticed this! Accepting the manmade tradition of "faith alone", like many other novel notions of Protestantism, requires that you emphasize some passages while completely ignoring or outright rejecting others. The Catholic Church doesn't teach anything unless it is fully compatible with EVERY passage of the Holy Bible.
Read the last paragraph of Matt 25. It deals entirely with works of Christian charity. It doesn't even mention faith. It concludes by telling us that those who do these works will enter into eternal life, while those who neglect these works will go off to eternal punishment! What does this mean to you? Is this part of God's Word or not? How do you interpret this away in order to hang onto an idea that was never heard of by any Christian on earth until a few hundred years ago?
The Catholic Church does NOT teach that works earn salvation. Salvation is a free gift of God that cannot be earned. But like any gift it must be accepted in order to be received. Works do not earn salvation. Faith does not earn salvation. But the God-given teaching of Christ's Church, including the parts preserved in the Holy Bible, makes it abundantly clear that BOTH faith and good works are absolutely essential means of accepting the gift of salvation, and that you will not receive that gift if you lack either faith OR works.
2007-09-08 12:48:09
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answer #2
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answered by PaulCyp 7
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Sola Fides
Luther added the word ‘alone’ to the following citation:
Rom 3:28 For we hold that a man is justified by faith apart from works of law.
BOTH FAITH AND GOOD WORKS REQUIRED
www.call2holiness.org/faith.html
Sola Fides ('Faith Alone') another false notion created by Luther. He even admitted boldly to adding the word "alone" to Romans 3:28. Now, Luther did this in spite of the Scriptural admonitions against adding to or taking away from the Word of God.....and the Protestants continue such practice to this day:
"Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you, and you be found a liar." (Prov 30:5-6)
(See also, Deu 4:2, Gal. 1:8, 2 Pet 3:15-16, Rev. 22: 18-19)
Protestants believe in this false 'faith alone' in spite of several biblical citations to the contrary. For example:
"…So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead……..You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble. Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works…" …….. (Cf. James 3:14-26)
St. James is telling us here, that even the demons believe that Jesus is God, and still they burn.
All who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. (Rom. 2:12-13)
"And by this we may be sure that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He who says "I know him" but disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him; but whoever keeps his word, in him truly love for God is perfected. By this we may be sure that we are in him: he who says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked. Beloved, I am writing you no new commandment, but an old commandment which you had from the beginning; the old commandment is the word which you have heard." (1Jo 2:3-7)
Are You Saved?
http://home.inreach.com/~bstanley/saved.htm
Sola Fide: Can it Work?
http://home.inreach.com/~bstanley/fides.htm
2Jo 1:9 Any one who goes ahead and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God; he who abides in the doctrine has both the Father and the Son.
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2007-09-08 13:00:57
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answer #3
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answered by The Cub 4
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Salvation is by faith alone in the Lord Jesus Christ. Roman Catholics believe that Mary is co-redeemer with Christ but the Lord has said: I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. (Isaiah 42:8)
2007-09-09 10:19:32
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answer #4
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answered by jael 2
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pennance is showing your sorrow. if you are sorry, you'll do pennance as opposed to saying "well i said i was sorry, it's all good"
i'd also like to add if Paul thought that faith leads to works, then why did he say "if i have faith that move mountains, but no love(some translate as charity), i am nothing"
edit
i just thought of a biblical explanation.
after Peter denied Jesus, he apoligized, Jesus asked "do you love me", peter said he loves him like a brother, then Jesus said "feed my sheep"
this process was repeated twice more, once for every denial.
hmm, doing an act to show your repentence? sounds like pennance.
2007-09-08 12:35:48
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answer #5
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answered by Quailman 6
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Answer depends upon the good understanding of Catholic belief
2007-09-08 21:33:08
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answer #6
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answered by kabduk 2
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Your right you can not earn it or work for it or pay for it!
2007-09-08 12:35:15
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answer #7
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answered by Anonymous
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No no no.
Many Protestants and “Bible only” Christians think that Catholics must earn their way to heaven through good works, performing certain rituals like novena, pilgrimage, fasting, abstinence etc. In short they think Catholics believe in salvation by works. The late Calvinist scholar Lorraine Boettner, infamous for his anti-Catholic book “Roman Catholicism“, wrote:
In Protestantism salvation is a matter of grace. In Romanism [Catholicism] one must work hard for it and must pay dearly for it, and after he has done all that the priest has prescribed he still cannot know whether he has it or not.
Boettner, Roman Catholicism, page 268
It was Pelagius (c. 350 AD to 425AD) who first taught that men can earn their salvation without help (Grace) from God. He believed that the Fall of Adam did not affect mankind (or there is no Original Sin) and neither did the death and resurrection of Christ. While he did not deny the existence of God’s Grace, to him it only facilitates what we ourselves can do for our salvation. The Catholic Church, through Augustine, teaches that men, because of the sin of Adam, cannot reach the justified state to enter heaven without God’s Grace. Pelagius’ teaching, known as Pelagian or Pelagianism, was condemned in the Council of Carthage in 418 AD and Orange in 529 AD. After Reformation, the sixteenth century ecumenical council of Trent reaffirmed Catholic Church position that (1) we cannot reach salvation by our own works, i.e. without God’s Grace and that (2) God’s Grace is not facilitator but necessity for our salvation.
If any one saith, that man may be justified before God by his own works, whether done through the teaching of human nature, or that of the law, without the grace of God through Jesus Christ; let him be anathema.
Council of Trent, Canon I on Justification
If any one saith, that the grace of God, through Jesus Christ, is given only for this, that man may be able more easily to live justly, and to merit eternal life, as if, by free will without grace, he were able to do both, though hardly indeed and with difficulty; let him be anathema.
Council of Trent, Canon II on Justification
Now, we do believe that good works FLOW from that grace, as the Bible teaches.
Luke 23:41; John 3:19-21, Rom. 8:13, 2 Tim 4:14, Titus 3:8,14, Rev. 22:12 - these verses also teach us that we all will be judged by God according to our deeds. There is no distinction between the "saved" and the "unsaved."
Matt. 7:1-3 - we are not judged just by faith, but actually how we judge others, and we get what we have given. Hence, we are judged according to how we responded to God's grace during our lives.
Matt. 10:22, 24:13; Mark 13:13 - Jesus taught that we must endure to the very end to be saved. If this is true, then how can Protestants believe in the erroneous teaching of "Once saved, always saved?" If salvation occurred at a specific point in time when we accepted Jesus as personal Lord and Savior, there would be no need to endure to the end. We would already be saved.
Matt. 16:27 – Jesus says He will repay every man for what he has done (works).
Matt. 25:31-46 - Jesus' teaching on the separation of the sheep from the goats is based on the works that were done during their lives, not just on their acceptance of Christ as Savior. In fact, this teaching even demonstrates that those who are ultimately saved do not necessarily have to know Christ. Also, we don’t accept Christ; He accepts us. God first makes the decision to accept us before we could ever accept Him.
Matt. 25:40,45 - Jesus says "Whatever you did to the least of my brothers, you did it to Me." We are judged and our eternal destiny is determined in accordance with our works.
Luke 14:14 – Jesus says we are repaid for the works we have done at the resurrection of the just. Our works lead to salvation.
Luke 23:41 - some Protestants argue that Jesus gave salvation to the good thief even though the thief did not do any good works. However, the good thief did in fact do a good work, which was rebuking the bad thief when he and others were reviling Jesus. This was a "work" which justified the good thief before Jesus and gained His favor. Moreover, we don't know if the good thief asked God for forgiveness, did works of penance and charity and was reconciled to God before he was crucified.
Rom. 2:6-10, 13 - God will judge every man according to his works. Our salvation depends on how we cooperate with God's grace.
2 Cor. 5:10 - at the judgment Seat of Christ, we are judged according to what we have done in the body, not how much faith we had.
2 Cor. 9:6 – Paul says that he who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully, in connection with God’s judgment.
Heb. 12:14 – without holiness, no one will see the Lord. Holiness requires works of self-denial and charity, and does not come about simply by a profession of faith.
1 Peter 1:17 - God judges us impartially according to our deeds. We participate in applying the grace Jesus won for us at Calvary in our daily lives.
Rev. 2:5 - Jesus tells the Ephesians they have fallen from love they used to have, and orders them to do good works. He is not satisfied with their faith alone. They need to do more than accept Him as personal Lord and Savior.
EDIT: Catholics distinguish between mere natural good works, which are performed by fallen humanity without the help of actual grace, and salutary acts, or good deeds performed by the just which are inspired and carried out by the grace of the Holy Spirit. Ephesians 2:8-10 makes the same distinction between works which cannot save us (vs 9) and works which God wills us to perform in Christ Jesus (vs 10). The former are natural good works, the latter salutary acts.
Salutary acts clearly play a part in our salvation. They are the fruit of life in Christ (Jn 15:2-8); the works without which faith is dead (Jas 2:14-26) and the means by which we work out our own salvation (Phil 2:12-13). Since we perform them according to God's will and with divine help, they are not merely our works but the work of the Holy Spirit in and through us (vs 13). Therefore they, like our salvation, are the fruit of divine Grace.
Catholics, therefore, do not believe in "salvation by works"
Rather, we believe that we are saved by grace from beginning to end: the grace of Jesus Christ regenerates us in Baptism, creates our faith, inspires salutary acts, sanctifies us through the Sacraments and will ultimately glorify us when Our Lord returns. Without grace we absolutely cannot be saved.
Why then do some Evangelicals think that Catholics believe in works salvation? Because they believe that salvation comes by "accepting Jesus Christ as ones personal Lord and Savior". So when they hear us tell our children to do good deeds and keep the Ten Commandments they interpret it as teaching works salvation, (since they consider the children to be "unsaved").
Yet we Catholics believe that Jesus saves us through Baptism (I Pt 3:21). So when we tell our children to be good we are teaching baptized, saved Christians which salutary acts God requires them to perform to "work out their own salvation" (Phil 2:12) and which sins to avoid which could cause them to lose their salvation. Naturally, they must rely on God's grace to accomplish these good works, for grace is the source of salutary acts.
2007-09-08 12:43:29
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answer #8
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answered by SpiritRoaming 7
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