Correcting a pagan - Correction or an attack?

Question

I see this alarming trend - sadly not new - in young pagans, specifically those claimants to witchcraft or Wicca - that when corrected on misinformation they are accepting and spreading about as truth, they believe it is a personal attack.

Why is this?

Is it a personality issue, a security issue or an ego issue? Or something else altogether?

And why, also, do so many of them claim "ancient pagan roots" or generations of Wiccans in their family (pretty much impossible past 3 possible prior generations, since Wicca didn't exist til 1951) when it's clearly not a fact?

It truly baffles me - you?

Addy - so far you said it best.

Puss - yes, I DO understand that - the question is, do YOU understand that paganism is a blanket term for every religious belief and practice not stemming from Abrahamic teachings? Therefore, Wiccans are pagans, though OBVIOUSLY not every pagan is a Wiccan. I'm definitely not Wiccan - just can't get into the dogma and coven politics.

Oh, and don't use Wikipedia as a reliable source for anything - even public schools refuse to accept it as a source - it's anything but reliable or factual.

Marisalwood - also excellently said.

Wow! Some really great and well thought out responses - and not a single "we're gonna burn in hell" statement in the crowd. I'm going to have to take some time and reread everything, because I honestly don't know who to choose for best response.

I will address one person though - Xena - I HAVE studied many religions, including Wicca, over the years, as well as a great deal of history regarding the church and older practices. I AM one of those fam trads, and I HAVE been a involved and educated witch for 37 years now. I appreciate the offer, but nothing you sugested is new to me. So when I am correcting someone, I AM sure of my 'facts".

I have more patience for the militant new ones than I do for those who merely assume I must not have enough education in the subject area because I am concerned about the new ones responses and claims. Think on that a while, please.

Thank you all again - I have truly enjoyed reading this and I'll choose a best later today.

Answer 1

I agree with almost everything you've said however can I just correct 1 thing you said.

Yes it's true that Wicca is a neopagan religion invented in the early to mid part of the last century-though that doesn't mean it's not a valid religion.

However many Pagan religions are FAR older as you have said and despite the best attempts of Christians and Muslims over the past 2000 years many of these religions continued-through a small hardcore who refused to abandon the old ways-to the present day.

I am a Celtic Pagan.My Mum is Christian and I'm not sure what my Dad is(we aren't close)but my Grandmother was also a Celtic Pagan as were both her parents and many members of her mothers family at least back to her greatgrandparents generation and probably much further back.

Maybe some of these Wiccans had parents or grandparents or whatever that were traditional pagans and that's what they mean.Though I am sure your right and many are just liars.

Answer 2

Hello Friend,
I am relatively new to Wicca and I am very open to being corrected. I think the reason you are running into this is two of the problems I have had. The first is that you don't know who to listen to. I find it best to hear the person out, and then go home and check what they are saying in the various books I have. I have educated myself as much as possible and am still doing so but I think there is always going to be something you don't know. What they think you are doing is attacking their religion. They know you are not Wiccan and probably think you are trying to make fun of them as they probably get that response from most non-wiccans. They are also are quite possibly getting their information from a bad source such as certain authors that make all kinds of false claims about Wicca. So in this the problem is that they are used to getting attacked for their beliefs so they are immediately on the defencive, and they are being improperly informed of what their religion is about.
The other problem that many new people encounter, including myself is that it is often very hard to get anyone to take you seriously when you tell them of your beliefs. This includes other pagans and Wiccans. It is easy after a while to believe anything being said to you is some kind of attack. Because there are so many people who do become Pagans for the wrong reasons, (attention, "it's cool", they want to be able to get the person they like to like them back, so why not use a little magic etc...) most Pagans I find are weary of new adherents. It's understandable, but still very difficult. You become tempted to claim a longer association with the religion just so you are taken seriously. I have never done this but I can see why people would be tempted.
I am sorry they are being so rude to you, but please try to be gentle with them as they have probably been abused by everyone else.
Blessings

Answer 3

To be honest here, I will correct them and they can take it as an attack or they can take it as advice from a scholar and elder. If someone is wrong about something, particularly having to do with Wicca and other forms of Paganism, I will tell them they are wrong about it. They can take this advice as being from some who is a Wiccan elder and scholar of many religious beliefs, or they can continue in ignorance of what I have told them. I think it is often a security issue, and often people do not like being wrong. If they tell me their family has been Wiccan for generations I often laugh at it, even though I am Wiccan myself. I try to educate people where I can on where certain authors are lying about various things, just to sell books, and pass on the knowledge I have gained in my studies throughout my life.

As a side note, Wicca takes its origins in the mid-1930's. It became public in 1954 with the publishing of Gerald Gardner's first book, after the repeal of the anti-witchcraft laws in England in 1951. It does take some basis in older traditions, particularly celtic and romanic era ideas of classical religions, but it is a very new belief. Wicca does have ancient roots, but it is a modern tree, continuing with the analogy. Most of the ritualism used in Wicca is taken from Hermetic practices.

It does not really baffle me anymore. I was Wiccan at 13, before it was popular, and I wil still pretty fluffy back then until I got involved with an Alexandrian coven when I was 17. 20 years after my initial exposure to Wicca, I am a very different person. I am often amused when people tell me there is only the Goddess in Wicca, and completely disregard the God aspect, which is a very important part of the beliefs.

At the same time, it is the personal connection to the divine that counts. If they have that, they can come to understand the history without loosing it. If someone has a personal connection to the divine in their beliefs, it fulfills their life, and they love it, then no one really has the right to say their beliefs are wrong. Their history might be a bit off, but their beliefs are fine with me.

BB,
Lord AmonRaHa

Answer 4

answer: I'll continue to use Heathen. Some of my kindred use Asatrur. I've seen some of those that attack the term as being insulting and try to correct them that there is a pagan path that embraces the term and is claiming it as something positive. I add the term Reconstruct to signal that I'm part of a more conservative branch of Heathenism and don't add other pantheons or outside magical systems in with my Heathenism. Much like the term witch in the pagan community years ago. If someone really doesn't know much about the various communities, I use the term pagan. Sometimes it's frustrating when we all get lumped into the same definition. Wiccans aren't Heathens but we're all pagans.

Answer 5

Its a correction, not an attack. Bad facts are bad facts, period. I realize that no one likes being told that they are mistaken, but refusing to acknowledge even the possibility of yourself not being perfect is not only obnoxious and ignorant but also extremely arrogant.

Unfortunately, the Pagan population (by which I mean those who self-identify as Pagans) has a sizable faction of people who are more interested in making a statement or getting attention then any actual religious truth. They LIKE when people "attack" them because it makes them feel like a martyr. I've seen some actually enter Internet forums blatantly looking to be attacked, saying things like "Hi! I'm Lady Fluffy Buttercup and I'm Wiccan, which we all know is the most ancient religion ever! I love everyone except Christians, because they suck." And then when someone objects (either to the bad information or to the obnoxious behavior), Buttercup screams persecution.

These people are also lazy. They think all they need to do is read one book or one website and they'll be an enlightened an powerful Pagan. Correcting one of these people also implies that getting it right is going to involve actual work - that you can't just make "facts" up as you go along and expect to be respected. The idea that this whole religion thing actually involves a lot of time and effort is completely alien to them.

Answer 6

I cannot personally relate to it, because in my own search for my path I didn't have any books, initially, and I didn't have anyone to ask questions of. I believed that I was the only person on the face of the earth who believed what I did. When I actually found people from whom to learn, I was *thrilled* and eager to correct any misinformation I had acquired.

I'm mostly going to restrict my comment to neo-wiccans, because I'm not familiar enough with other Pagan religions to speak from any knowledge.

That said, I think there are a few different reasons why this happens.

1. There are a lot of people new to ":Wicca" (neo-wicca) who want validation for the idea that they can do anything they want to. This, of course, is most likely to be the case in the stage of life where they are rebelling against *any* rules or restrictions. You'll find these folks saying "No one can define Wicca for you" or "I don't like the restrictions of Traditional Wicca" - even though most of them are too young to have ever gotten Traditional Wicca training. There is a GREAT desire to cling to the idea that they have found something (something "cool") that tells them (as they think) that they can do whatever they want to; that it doesn't require any actual study or discipline. And they will defend that position, because it's what they want. And, frankly, at that age they are usually convinced that older people simply are wrong. In everything.

2. There are folks who come to Pagan religions as a reaction to the oppressive religious experiences they have had previously. Such people may, coming from a place in which they were constantly told they were wrong, take a confrontational stance to anyone in their NEW spiritual path correcting them, simply because it is a knee-jerk holdover. And they also do not want to know that there ARE disciplines and correct and incorrect ways to do things, because they are fleeing those things in their previous religion.

3. There are a whole lot of folks *in our community* who tell their students that theirs is the "only right way" to be Wiccan or whatever. It strikes me as odd that anyone would want that, but it seems to be a human thing that cuts across religious orientation. Anyone who has the psychological need to be in the "only right religion" will resist correction, whether they are Pagan or Christian or Muslim or....whatever.

4. The plethora of books that are out there that claim to be the whole of Wicca, and offer only beginner's information (outer court stuff). People who get all their information from such books want to believe that they DO have "all of it" and that the people who have been practicing for many years and/or have received formal training are just trying to feel superior. Thus, those elders, when they correct misinformation, are just "bitter old nasty" people.

Most books on neo-wicca, at least, are really really bad. I have noticed a distinct relationship between the other things I mentioned above and a preference for Silver Ravenwolf.


***All that said, I do TRY to be gentle. I don't alway succeed.

Answer 7

Hi Pin,
Great question.
I too have found upset with newbies. What I've come to realize is that while they may know/practice the craft they don't understand the idea of our relationship with Goddess and all that includes. The reason behind the craft. The spirituality of it. Which in my mind is of utmost importance BEFORE you learn the craft. Some wear the label
'witch' or 'wiccan' as a badge, an ego trip, which in turn tells us there is no depth to their inner purpose of using the craft. Kind of like knowing the purposes for all the grand gifts of this world but not understanding where they came from nor the return of grace and love for them. It's the depth, the subtle, the foundation of using these arts that is being ignored.
Just my opinion.
Blessed Be

Answer 8

The term Pagan is used as a blanket term, yes. BUT it also only used with "outsiders" as a way of explaining something with out going into something they have no idea about. Most people just ASSUME that it's Wicca.
That being said, you are correct that many "younger" Wiccans are not correct in their beliefs because they have bought into the commercialism of the faith. There are a LOT of bad books out there that they get a hold of. It also depends on HOW they are being corrects and what about. If you tell a Pagan that their gods are false or that they are full of crap, they are going to get defensive.
Some of us DO honor the Gods of our ancestors. NOT Wicca, but other forms of reconstructional "pagan" faiths. If I tell someone I am Heathen they will not have a CLUE what I am talking about. If I tell someone I am Pagan, they do. Does that makes sense?

Answer 9

I know what you mean Pin~ Many newcommers mainly the younger ones seem to go into "Fundy Pagan Mode" for a while.
You see becoming Pagan in your ways takes a bit longer than it does to become Pagan in thought. Therefore they come out of the closet with guns blazing~ usually pointed at the christians because of what was done in the past. Its wrong, and they usually continue until it is pointed out to them by a elder pagan they respect that this is not our way.
~Just the same as many new christians~ delight on telling us pagans we are sinners and are going to hell and are on the whole nasty to others, until they learn that this is not how they should be treating others.
On your other point.Wicca does have pagan roots, meaning many of our beliefs and practices are ancient~not the faith, which you correctly point out as recently formed.
You see its just a matter of being armed with a gun but no bullets.
They have the faith but little knowledge to back up their words and actions.
I hope you and your Brothers and Sisters will realise this and try to have patience with the younger ones.
Blessed Be!
Ariel

Answer 10

I'd say part of it's a security issue. In many cases, these folks have been lied to - either by unethical authors who think turning a buck is more important than facts, or by other Pagans who don't check the facts. They've built a portion of their religious expression based on that - which means that, when you're correcting them, you're forcing them to not only accept that they've been hoodwinked, but also to reexamine the foundations of their faith. It can't be a particularly pleasant position to be in.

Fighting misinformation is, IMO, critical and vital, but it's got to be done carefully, with a delicate hand. Some folks are redeamable, and see that they can continue on their faith with just a little bit of correction - but they've got the be treated gently.