a question of faith.......?

Question

it is absurd to liken the faith of theists to the faith of atheistic scientists

science is advanced by developing theories and testing those theories rigorously and repeatedly until such time that the theory provides an extremely accurate prediction of behaviour in the universe. and peer review ensures that no hoodwinking slips through the net

it is ludicrous to suggest that theistic belief is subjected to such rigorous scrutiny. on the contrary, constructive scrutiny of religious beliefs is discouraged by religious leaders

why? what do they have to lose? if theyre so sure of their beliefs, they should be welcoming all attempts to investigate their beliefs

because then they'd be shown to be right after all, wouldnt they?

hmmm...

Answer 1

Well done for being able to read the thoughts of Professor Richard Dawkins and then pass them off as your own - or perhaps you didn't read his book, but caught his TV documentary instead.

Firstly, religious convictions are always being held up to scrutiny - more so now than ever - and although the central premise of any faith cannot be proved or disproved, it can have its own internal logic examined, and its teachings can be compared to scientific research. An honest person will always say 'does my faith square up to the facts as I understand them?'

However, what Professor Dawkins and others conveniently forget to mention is that life is clearly made up of some things that can can only be experienced in a subjective way. This does not mean than they don't exist or are in any way less valuable than those things we can measure, and quantify using scientific principles, however.

In fact the things that we prize most highly as a culture are just such things - concepts like love and honour have no place in a purely scientific world as they can't be reliably measured or scrutinized. Yet exist they do, and they have a central role in our cultural life.

Finally, ask yourself why you are so ready to accept that there is no collusion between scientists regarding whose truth is allowed out. In many ways, scientists are filling the same role that priests and shaman used to. They are the controllers of the hidden knowledge - and it is hidden, behind intimidating terminology - and this helps keep the population in check.

Try investigating the truth behind Global Warming for instance, you might be surprised at how dissident scientists have been silenced, and at how governments are using our fear of climate change to introduce nefarious policies. Don't believe me? Then why is nuclear power suddenly back on the political agenda? It is unsafe, the cost of decommissioning a nuclear power station will over-ride any saving it will make during its entire lifespan, but it does produce Uranium 135 as a handy by product which is used in the manufacture of nuclear weapons.

Suddenly, the gleaming reputation of the scientific peer monitoring system looks ever so tarnished.

Answer 2

Yes, a theist has faith that scientific scrutiny will only make their faith more firm. The Bible has been scrutinized by so many scholars throughout the ages, and God's Word will stand firm till the end of time.

Check out C.S. Lewis
Check out Lee Strobel

Answer 3

Theists love to point to the continuous changes in scientific hypothesis and theory, claiming that change is bad and a reason not to rely on scientific findings.

They completely ignore the fact that most religions have thousands of denominational sects which are a result of the exact same thing. They also refuse to accept that religion practiced today is very different than the same religion practiced thousands of years ago.

Religious people have to belittle science and call it evil, because it consistently disproves biblical claims, and has consistently benefited the human species in direct opposition of religion's legacy.

Answer 4

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

True faith is given from God.

Without that you are left in ignorance.

How can any tell you better?

But you are welcome to "investigate" God. Seek Him and search for Him. Call out for Him. He promises if you seek Him with all your heart He will be found of you.

Why haven't you?

There are plenty who have.

And their seeking has proved right.

What stops you?

Are you too clever for your own good? Is it your sin? Too proud? Only on your own terms? Closed mind? Looking too much at man? Bad experience? Easily put off?

There could be any number of other reasons.

Those who know God can be sure because God has revealed to them. All seeking of God is welcomed.

Will you accept your own challenge?

For your blessing, I do hope you will.

Answer 5

In my experience , religious faith appeals to the emotions, to that warm fuzzy feeling we all need when we are children - cuddles, cosyness etc, but as an adult, science, fact, enquiry, wonder, and reality appeal to me. I always feel, when talking to believers, that they have failed (or refused?) to grow up.

Answer 6

Faith is a magic word - it actually means nothing but delusion. It is not supported by anything.
A rational person can and would argue their point and not object to ........oh I give up . How can you argue with closed minded people. Did god (if he exists) give us a brain to use or not?

Answer 7

But their "atheism" is not based upon scientific principles that you mentioned. There are plenty (arguably even more) theistic scientists. Does that make them less scientists?

Answer 8

HMMMM. I've been told that people put "God in the gap" If there seems no provable reason for something in the universe, then God must be responsible. So, why is our universe so suited to our needs as human: God designed it that way. Instead of thinking that we evolved based on the environment we are in.

Answer 9

Dear whatever, you are born, you live, you die. Get your mind round that and enjoy your time in the sun. It is quite brief when you look back, I'm told.

Answer 10

If it didn't take faith then why call anything a theory?
Theory:
–noun, plural -ries.
1. a coherent group of general propositions used as principles of explanation for a class of phenomena: Einstein's theory of relativity.
2. a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact.
3. Mathematics. a body of principles, theorems, or the like, belonging to one subject: number theory.
4. the branch of a science or art that deals with its principles or methods, as distinguished from its practice: music theory.
5. a particular conception or view of something to be done or of the method of doing it; a system of rules or principles.
6. contemplation or speculation.
7. guess or conjecture.
[Origin: 1590–1600; < LL theōria < Gk theōría a viewing, contemplating, equiv. to theōr(eǐn) to view + -ia -y3]

And far be it beyond me to doubt, but I as a Christian have certain theories that I attest to. Science hasn't proven half of what I espoused as fact; evolution for instance.

But what makes the faith different for a scientist than that of a Christian? Are the molecules different? Is the desire to believe a theory as being true somehow better placed because a certain theory has nothing to do with God? Hmmm.

But let's talk about fact. What is fact? The atomic weight of the elements. That's a fact. The weight upon which to determine a measure of weight has been determined, and we can them rely on atoms weighing something. The right number involved on the nucleus of an atom along with the proper number of electrons determine the mass of the element. Okay.

What about God? What is the fact about Him? Well, Jesus promised that after he left the Earth, there would be a "Comforter" or "Councilor" to come instead. If what Jesus said was true then there ought to be something here on Earth which does things spiritually. This is what he said:
John 16 (New International Version)
5 "Now I am going to him who sent me, yet none of you asks me, 'Where are you going?' 6 Because I have said these things, you are filled with grief. 7 But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt[a] in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; 10 in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11 and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.

12 "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
14 He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.

And so I am telling you that the Holy Spirit is with me, and he's probably with you. His purpose might be different for you because you do not believe. There's nothing that I can hold in my hands to show you that the Holy Spirit is true, but there is only what I say. You of course do not have to believe me. I really don't care, in fact, I kind of like the idea.

But there it is. There's proof of God, the Holy Spirit who is here on Earth, and I am testifying to you that he is true, and He let me know that He is here.

Why would He let you know? Because you don't believe. And that makes me even feel better because it's a special kind of thing between me and God. It makes it more special because so many people like you don't see, don't understand, and then make unscientific claims about God not existing, when you really don't know a freaking thing about it. Since you claim to know, it makes you willfully ignorant, because the truth is you really don't know. You are unscientific in your approach, you didn't need any proof, and claiming to have a scientific method in your faith is rationalizing the unreasonable.

I guess it suits you.