Question about Catholics and Protestants.?

Question

I am at a cross roads. I can see from logic that Catholic Communion would be the right way (Transubstantiation) and I can see from history that Jesus and his followers started the fist church.

This is most probobly the existing Catholic Church.

However I have a problem with the whole rejection of grace alone. Its clear in the bible that salvation is a gift apart from works "so no man can boast" Now to take that as it is meant is that you can do nothing to earn it, its a gift from God.

that makes me question the whole purgatory things.

I dont need responses about where is this and that in the bible.

If you ask that question it just proves how ignorant of scripture you are. I can prove both viewpoints using the bible.

The only question is around history and how that supports such a view.

So if neither are absolutly right is the truth found in the middle.

Answer 1

If transubstantiation makes sense to you and you can see that the Catholic Church is the same Church that the first Christians started, then that is enough for your answer.

If you can use Scripture to prove both sides of other issues, then based on the paragraph above, you need to go with the Catholic interpretation.

Come Home.

Feel free to email me with any questions about Catholicism. I'll do what I can to answer.

Answer 2

Purgatory is simply the place where already saved souls are cleansed of the temporal effects of sin before they are allowed to see the holy face of Almighty God. Revelation 21:27 tells us that "...nothing unclean will enter [Heaven]."


Daniel 12:2, Matthew 12:32, 1 Corinthians 3:13-15, 2 Timothy 1:16-18, Hebrews 12:14, Hebrews 12:22-23, 1 Peter 4:6 and Revelation 21:10, 27 all speak of Purgatory in their telling of the need for purification, prayers for the dead, Christ's preaching to the dead, or how nothing unclean will see God.



Even the The Talmud1 speaks of Purgatory:

Sabbath 33b:
"The judgment of the wicked in purgatory is twelve months."
Rosh HaShanah 16b-17a:
"It has been taught that the school of Shammai says: "There will be three groups on Judgment Day (yom haDin):
(1) one that is completely righteous,
(2) one that is completely wicked,
(3) and one that is in between."




Jews, Catholics, and Eastern Orthodox have always proclaimed the reality of the final purification for those who need it. It was not until the Protestant Reformers came in the 1500s that any Christians denied the idea of a final purgation before seeing the face of God.


There are Protestants who believe in purgatory. One who was very explicit about it was C.S. Lewis. In his "Letters to Malcom".

But beyond Protestants like Lewis, who openly admit their belief in purgatory, it may be said that Protestants in general believe in purgatory, they just don't call it that.

For every historic Protestant will admit that our sinning in this life does not continue into heaven. In fact, they will be quite insistent that although our sanctification is not complete in this life, it will be completed as soon as this life is over.

But that is what purgatory is! -- the final sanctification, the purification. Thus it is permissible to say that many Protestants believe in purgatory without even realizing it.



Since converting to Catholicism 16 years ago,I still get into conversations with my sister (non-denomination Protestant) on subjects such as this.

I try to explain that the Church teaches by looking not only at Sacred Scripture, but into History and by reading what the earliest Christians have written with Scripture and Tradition.
Also, to believe that the Bible is our only source of Christian Truth is unbiblical and illogical.

All revealed truth is to be found in "66 books" is not only not in Scripture, it is contradicted by Scripture (1 Corinthians 11:2, 2 Thessalonians 2:15, 2 Thessalonians 3:6, 1 Timothy 3:15, 2 Peter 1:20-21, 2 Peter 3:16).

Hope this helps

Answer 3

You are welcome to my thoughts. I am a life-long Catholic but I must stress that I am not a priest or a theologian.

When you say that Catholics reject faith alone, I do not think this is correct. We do not think we can earn our way into heaven. We feel that God/Jesus created rules and we have to follow them. We must believe AND go to church on Sunday. We must believe AND go to confession etc. Simply believing without getting off the couch is not enough.

Purgatory is an odd duck and is commonly misunderstood. It is a place of purification before entering heaven. We Catholics think it is in the Bible, as you said Protestants do not. My personal feeling is that purgatory is somewhat incompatible with the Catholic idea of reconciliation and forgiveness of sins. My wife's aunt is a nun and has been teaching Catholicism for over fifty years. I asked this question and she tells me that I am just not thinking of it correctly. That does not exactly stop my mind from working the way it does. She did say that the church has de-emphasized purgatory over the years. BTW purgatory and limbo are two different things, but that is an entirely different conversation.

Do not think of purgatory as in between heaven and hell, rather it is between earth and heaven.

I agree with you that anyone can take a verse or two out of context and prove just about anything.

Answer 4

I have to agree with Genghis. If you agree that the Church Christ founded is the Catholic Church then you agree that She would not teach error since She was promised that the gates of Hell would never prevail against Her (Matt 16:18) and that the Church would be lead into ALL truth (John 16:13). Therefore the Church cannot teach any doctrinal error.

God Bless
Robin

Answer 5

The teaching of the catholic faith in morals and faith are from Christ himself protected by the Holy Spirit. This teaching office is the magisterial teaching office
Heb. 7:27, 9:12,26;10:10; 1 Pet 3:18 - Jesus died once and redeemed us all, but we participate in the application of His redemption by the way in which we live.

Heb. 9:12 - Christ's sacrifice secured our redemption, but redemption is not the same thing as salvation. We participate in and hope for salvation. Our hope in salvation is a guarantee if we are faithful to Christ to the end. But if we lose hope and fail to persevere, we can lose our salvation. Thus, by our own choosing (not by God's doing), salvation is not a certainty. While many Protestant churches believe in the theology of "once saved, always saved," such a novel theory is not found in Scripture and has never been taught by the Church.

Answer 6

Purgatory is part of God's grace and mercy. God's offers us His grace freely but we are allowed to choose wether we will cooporate with it or not. Jesus death ensured that we could attain heaven but it does not mean that each person will live their life in such a way that will make them earn heaven. If that was the case, then why not do away with the 10 Commandments since we are all going to heaven no matter what we do. It does not work that way. Because God is soo merciful he gives us one last chance to save our souls in purgatory. If we are not completely pure to enter heaven, but we still do not deserve to be in hell, then purgatory works as a purification process that gaurantees our entrance to heaven eventually. None of this would be possible without Jesus' death and ressurection, or in other words, God's grace.

To sum.. God's grace is freely given, Jesus died for all, but we are still able to choose if we will cooperate with this and enjoy what Jesus has merited for us all.

Answer 7

No, the existing Catholic church is not the Biblical Church. It is very "historical" but truly not biblical.

Read the book of Acts in the bible, compare that to churches, and you'll find those who preach and teach what was started in the Acts (Acts and Actions of the Apostles). THIS is the original, Apostolic church.

Historically, the Catholic church does not begin until quite some time "after" the Apostles. Do what the bible says to do and stop standing on the fence.

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Answer 8

protestant are unique from catholic the major change is that the catholic church approved evolution i feel.Roman catholic is solely the extra usual type of Catholicism

Answer 9

You can't prove purgatory by the Bible. It isn't there. And the fact that you want to discount the Bible as the final authority, shows that you're not a Christian.

Catholics are not saved Christians. And Jesus started His church which is composed of believers, says the Bible. He didn't start the catholic cult.

Answer 10

First, the two really aren't all that different. Both Catholics and Protestants believe that salvation is a gift from God, not anything that can be earned by human kind. Right, we know that. Protestants say that you must have faith in God and proclaim Jesus as Lord, and you will be saved. Now, if you truly have faith in God and believe that Jesus is Lord, then you will keep his commandments. You will do good works. If you say you have faith and you say that Jesus is Lord but can't be bothered to do good works, then this is an indication that your convictions are not deep or true. You would not be saved anyway. Thus, faith and works always go hand in hand.


Still, you ask for historical evidence in support of the 'faith and works' doctrine, so let's see what there is.

- In 1527, the Diet of Worms condemned the doctrine that good works are not necessary for salvation.
- St. Augustine said, "I praise the fruit of good works, but their root I discern in faith." (Enarr. in Ps. xxxi, P.L., IV, 259).
- Theodoret of Cyrrhus (393-496): "I shall put up with the injustice as bringing me nearer to the kingdom of heaven, and shall await that impartial tribunal, where there is neither prosecutor, nor counsel, nor witness, nor distinction in rank, but judgment of deeds and words and righteous retribution. "For," it is said, "we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ that every one may receive the things done in his body according to that he hath done whether it be good or bad" (Letter XCI To the Prefect Euthrechius).
- St. John Chrysostum: "Verse 6 "For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love." What is the meaning of "working through love?" Here he gives them a hard blow, by showing that this error had crept in because the love of Christ had not been rooted within them. For to believe is not all that is required, but also to abide in love." (Commentary on Galatians 5, NPNF1: Volume 13, page 37).
- Clement of Rome: "Let us cleave, then, to those to whom grace has been given by God. Let us clothe ourselves with concord and humility, ever exercising self-control, standing far off from all whispering and evil-speaking, being justified by our works, and not our words."
- Ignatius: ""Be pleasing to him whose soldiers you are, and whose pay you receive. May none of you be found to be a deserter. Let your baptism be your armament, your faith your helmet, your love your spear, your endurance your full suit of armor. Let your works be as your deposited withholdings, so that you may receive the back-pay which has accrued to you" (Letter to Polycarp)
- Justin Martyr: "Each man goes to everlasting punishment or salvation according to the value of his actions." (1st Apology of Justin)
- Cyprian: "You therefore, who are rich and wealthy, buy for yourself of Christ gold tried by fire; that you may be pure gold, with your filth burnt out as if by fire, if you are purged by almsgiving and righteous works." (Treatise 8, A.D. 253)
- Basil: " Eternal rest awaits those who have struggled through the present life observant of the laws, not as payment owed for their works, but bestowed as a gift of the munificent God on those who have hoped in him."
- Ambrose: "But the sacred Scriptures say that eternal life rests on a knowledge of divine things and on the fruit of good works." (Duties of the Clergy)
- Jerome: "In vain do we make our boast in him whose commandments we keep not."

The Church Fathers have consistently upheld the idea that good works are necessary for salvation. The theology of 'sola fide' did not exist until the 16th century.