Humans are omnivores, so why do people think we can live without animal protein in our diets?

Question

All you have to do is look at your own teeth to see that you are an omnivore. We have designed to both tear flesh and grind plant matter.

Studies have linked veganism to schizophrenia. Humans require animal protein to complete protein strands that are necessary for healthy cell growth and regeneration. Without the animal protein, how is it possible to form these healthy protein strands? Muscles and the brain are the first to suffer from no new formation of protein strands.

It is true that the average American consumes far too much meat. I believe about 3 servings of meat are what are considered to be what a human requires to be healthy, not 3 servings a day.

The schizophrenia comment was not meant to say that all schizophrenia is caused by veganism, but rather it can be a cause in an otherwise healthy brain, otherwise not prone to schizophrenia.

I obtained my information about the differences in protein from Doctor of Biology who was a contemporary of Dr. Crick, of Watson and Crick, the men who discovered the double helix form of DNA. Probably one of the most educated men I have ever met. All protein is not equal. In order to complete a full protein strand, several types of protein are necessary, 4 of which cannot be obtained by plants. These proteins can be obtained from ones own body for a short period of time (probably between 1-5 years, depending on the person) but after that, the necessary protein strands can no longer be produced, which then leads to problems.

I had a great aunt who was vegan for most of her life. Despite zero family history of schizophrenia, she was diagnosted as a schizophrenic sometime around 35. Her doctors always believed it to be attributed to her diet.

Side note: Humans are omnivores despite their diet. There is a distinction between vegetarians and herbivores, ergo, no human is a carnivore

Did I say that we had the teeth to seperate a deer's spinal cord? No. I said that we have teeth to tear flesh. They're called incisors. Our incisors are not developed enough to be used like a lion's.

Did anyone notice that I say that humans need much less meat than most consume? Also, I never mentioned what type off animal protein was necessary, I could mean muskrat for all you know.

I am very well aware of tactics of the meat and dairy industry. I am advocate for animal rights, which I believe include a healthy life (not in a cage or in a feed lot, but in the field) and a humane death. I am opposed to use of growth hormones and the massive amounts of anti-biotics used in the industry. It's cheap to assume that your opponent is uneducated.

While the body may not tolerate excess cholesterol, it also does not tolerate excess vitamin C, which is a common vitamin in fruits and vegetables. Too much vitamin C causes heart failure. Too much of anything can kill you.

Answer 1

I've recently come across some interesting information that truly puts humans into the category of NATURAL herbivore and NOT omnivore!

I'd suggest you start studying prion diseases for a fascinating bit of information. (here's some background info) Prions cause brain wasting disease ONLY in natural herbivores! Sheep with scrapie are the classic example of this. We've now got plenty of proof that raising the naturally herbivorous cattle as omnivores (humans have been feeding meat to cattle for decades! They are omnivores now) has resulted in the prion based disease commonly called mad cow disease. We now know that prions shed by infected cattle into the soil are now infected other herbivores like deer resulting in their infection with chronic wasting disease. Squirrels and rabbits in parts of Appalachia are also now showing the same symptoms of prion based disease.
True omnivores like bears, canids, rats and raccoons along with true carnivores like cats and avian raptors are NOT susceptible to prions, there's currently research being done on these animals to find out why they don't get infected. You'd think they'd get them since they eat large amounts of infected meat.

Humans ARE susceptible to prion based diseases like Alzheimer's and vCJD! You can try to ignore the fact that human canines and incisors are similar to those of rabbits, that our jaws rotate like herbivores, that our digestion is like herbivores; are you also going to ignore that we get prion based brain diseases that are ONLY found amongst natural herbivores?

Humans are omnivores by culture and NOT by nature, just like the cattle that we've been abusing with meat for decades!

I think your doctor friend needs to stop reading research that dates back to 60 years ago! Those arguments about vegans going nuts were propaganda put out to claim that Hitler's veggie diet is what drove him insane and caused him to start WWII, just like the propaganda issued during the same war that claimed that carrots improved eyesight and even the propaganda that Hitler was a veg (Goebbels started the rumor to rag on the British!).

I dare you to try to consume enough food based vitamin C to cause heart damage. We all know it's easy to consume enough animal flesh to cause cholesterol based heart damage!

BTW; it's now well known in scientific circles that Watson & Crick did NOT discover the structure of DNA!! They were way off track until they swiped the results of research conducted by a 'mere woman'! Look it up if you don't believe me.

Care to argue the 60 year old claim that Cobalamin can only be obtained from animal sourcers?

Edit:

I'm quite familiar with the news headlines that jellbz speaks of, much like the recent junk 'science' headlines about vegans sexual habits I've bothered to review the actual research and it's quite lacking. You can get ANY animal sick if you inject enough prions directly into it's bloodstream. Thus the 'research' showing that "...goats, sheep, mice, monkeys, pigs, and mink" can be infected. Now find research on the goats, mice, pigs, mink and cats getting infected from their diet!
I most certainly did NOT miss that hundreds of cats were killed during the panic did you miss that NO malformed prions were ever found in the brains of the murdered cats? Same with that '91 hunting dog study, no prions were ever found but there was evidence found for chemical caused disease, that's why the '91 study isn't used as a reference! The studies about zoo animals dying of suspected prion disease are just that, there are other causes of 'brain rot' than prions and prions can be spread thru reused medical equipment (like syringes or scalpels) or wounds to the animal..

If true carnivores/omnivores can contract prion disease from their food why are there several research projects being conducted to find out why their digestive system either deactivates prions or prevents their absorbtion (drug companies hoping for another profitable pill)? Drug companies are also having a field day trying to find out why it's so hard to infect omnivorous rodents!

Since I don't eat animals I'll make a deal with jellbz. I'll eat a pound of rose hips and she can take her choice of either eating a pound of prion infected omnivorous cow brains OR be injected with 1ml of prion contaminated serum. I wonder who'll kack out first?

Edit:

Jellbz, do some detailed research (other than reading headlines) and you'll find quite a bit of info about the 'puzzing' topic of carnivores and omnivores resistance to dietary prions. I'd blow the time to answer your question but during the week my online time is limited.

Answer 2

I have worked in mental health for 20 years and my wife is a Registered Dietitian who worked in mental health for 25 years.

In answer to your first question: people believe that because there is overwhelming evidence that we don't need animal protein. I have been vegetarian since 1983, I am at least as healthy as most people my age (50), so why am I not dead yet?

About the teeth, I just looked at my dog's teeth, and if I saw people with teeth like that I would run, or at least start wearing a crucifix. Human canine teeth are wimpy when you compare them to the canine teeth of carnivorous animals.

I never heard anything about vegetarianism causing schizophrenia before. If it was true, it seems like my wife would have been focusing on that issue.

What studies? Show me the evidence; a website or something. What is the name of the scientist other than "Doctor of Biology?" Prove it to me that you aren't making it up.

Even if there is such a study, this theory has never been accepted by the American Psychiatric Association, nor the American Dietetic Association.

Answer 3

Because they can, and people have been doing it for hundreds and hundreds of years.

Professor Chittenden of Yale University did various studies and wrote many published academic articles, including a book, concerning protein. His findings, by testing many subjects (athletes, military personnel, and normal people), were that vegetable protein diets were not much different than diets with meat proteins in terms of strength and fitness. In fact, his finding were used in part as a basis for the recommended requirements for protein that exist today. Previous to his work, many thought you needed twice as much as his studies showed.

His book has been scanned here on the internet.
http://www.archive.org/details/physiologicaleco00chitiala

As far as teeth, what does that matter? Can you really bite into a deer without using a knife first? Do you realize that the human body does not tolerate excess cholesterol, which comes from animals products, and can result in heart disease and stroke. So why is there a need to consume it when the body makes it itself. Some people, including published medical doctors, give this as an indication that people aren't really supposed to consume meat.

Also, the Giant Panda Bear is a carnivore animal, and yet it generally lives on only vegetation. It is still a bear and can catch fish and kill other large animals like any other bear, but it can live without having to consume meat. So if people are omnivores it doesn't mean they need animal meat.

Answer 4

There are many different alternatives for protein. Humans do not HAVE to eat animal protein in order to be healthy. In fact, studies show that vegetarians on average live healthier and longer lives than meat eaters. A well rounded diet that includes legumes, vegetables, dairy (or soy milk, etc), fruits, whole grains, and other necessities does the body good. Meat contains a lot of fat, cholesterol, drugs, and baceteria... Not to mention the fact that the meat on your plate derived from a horrific slaughterhouse.

Ever since going vegetarian over 8 months ago, my body feels so much better each and every day. I rarely get sick and have noticed a difference in my skin, hair, nails, and overall health. So no thanks, I'll pass on the meat.


ETA: Oh, and I thought I might add that there are many people who have culturally refrained from eating meat over the past centuries (e.g. many South and East Asians). Do they have a larger population of schizophrenics? No.


"While the body may not tolerate excess cholesterol, it also does not tolerate excess vitamin C, which is a common vitamin in fruits and vegetables. Too much vitamin C causes heart failure. Too much of anything can kill you."

What are you trying to say? That vegetarians and vegans consume too much vitamin C just because they don't eat meat? News flash! Just because the word "vegetarian" derives from vegetable, doesn't mean that's all they eat! Yeah, too much vitamin C causes heart failure, just like too much cholesterol causes heart disease... Which is much more common in the U.S. There isn't a vast amount of people dying from consuming too much vitamin C, but high cholesterol and its health-related consequences are bombarding Americans everyday. So what's your point?

Answer 5

You can't just say humans are omnivores. That's like saying humans are Christian. Not everyone is and it's a personal choice. You are simply ignorant for coming in here and forcing your beliefs on us. Do you really think that we are all going to read your post and say, "Oh wow I have been wrong all these years. I'm so glad that this one person completely changed my beliefs." Studies have linked meat eating to cancer and heart disease so don't bring up your BS studies excuse. You are an uneducated idiot for thinking that meat is the only place to get protein. We can get our protein from other sources.

Answer 6

Studies can link everything to something with positive correlation. I've seen studies that can link global warming to the decline of pirates. Correlation does not equal causation. Until you can show me a rash of vegans going schizophrenic, I don't believe it. I'm sorry about your relative, but there could be a million confounding factors there and just because her doctor believed it was diet related doesn't make it so.

I think others have refuted your argument pretty well, but I've been vegetarian since I was eight, twelve years, and my muscles and brain have not hurt any.

Answer 7

People think we can live without animal protein in our diets BECAUSE WE CAN and there are millions of vegetarians, even lifelong ones to prove it. The American Dietetic Association and the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine both endorse a plant-based diet and there's ample research to prove that vegetarians live longer and have lower instances of obesity, cardiovascular disease, high blood pressure, elevated cholesterol, kidney disease and diabetes. If you are going to point to studies linking veganism to schizophrenia, by all means cite them so we can share your superior knowledge. Humans are different from other animals in that we can weigh the ethical and moral ramifications of our decisions; just because we CAN eat meat, it does not mean we are obligated to or that we have to accept that it's a morally or ethically acceptable thing to do.

Answer 8

What? Anyway most of the vegans avoid animals and ALL animal products because of the animal creulty associated with it. And I don't have any razor sharp teeth to tear through animal flesh. 90% of my teeth are blunt for chewing plant matter and the other 10% of them are for chewing through tough plants like carrots and the like. Not sure about your teeth, but mine are made for plants. Meat harms your body. It does not fully digest. Vegetarians have a 50% less chance of getting things like colon cancer, heart disease, and having high blood pressure. They may have done their studies on unhealthy veg*ns that ate junk food all day. And schizophrenia is mostly a genetic thing but can happen for no appearent reason in everyone. That means you have a small risk for getting the disease. Your info is wrong sorry. Since you don't sound veg at all you wouldn't know about all the things they do to try and back up the meat and dairy industry. Milk is bad it does not give you any more calcium than plant matter does. It contains pus, hormones and other nasty things. Your meat contains even more nasty things ie. growth hormones, antibiotics, and things you would never even dream of. Not to mention the creulty factor.


Oh, being veg has not aged me one bit . I'm 20 years old. People are constantly mistaking me for being 14 despite the very obvious fact that I am a D cup bra. They make their jugements off the fact my face and skin looks so young.

And a penut butter and jam sanwhich on whole wheat bread contains all 12 essential amino acids. Why do you think it's the number one food given to children for lunch? It's not that hard to keep yourself healthy on a veg diet. Been one since I was 12.
Answer this. Why when I eat the smallest amount of meat ie. my fries being fried in the same oil as a chicken patty I get sick? I asked my doctor about it and I was told by more than one doctor that I could no longer digest animal proteins. What about that. We are not supposed to digest meat. BECAUSE YOU CAN STICK IT IN YOUR MOUTH AND CHEW DOES NOT MEAN YOU CAN DIGEST IT.

Answer 9

1) Human teeth are not true distinct canines but are shorter and more cone shaped for tearing foliage not flesh.

2) The human digestive tract is not chemically designed to properly digest meat. That is why it takes seven days to digest meat because your digestive tract needs more time to break it down. Plant based material takes less than a day. The result often leads to bacterial build-up and gastrointestinal problems and can even be as bad as colon cancer.

3) Veganism is not linked to schizophernia. You mention that one doctor believes your aunts schizophernia was linked to her diet but there is no factual evidence. A theory is simply a theory and there are plenty of vegetarians that do not suffer from schizophernia. Vegetarian diets have plenty of protien and the human body only needs 5%. Here is a web site that lists many vegetarian protiens. And no the human body does not need any protien from flesh. How do you think those animals with flesh got the protien in them? From the plants they eat!

http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/protein.htm

Answer 10

Choice

Answer 11

The problem with your argument is this:

It is true that humans are adapted to eat meat, however, our hunter/gather ancestors ate an entirely different type of meat than we eat today. 30,000 years ago, the average human caloric intake consisted of about 20% animal meat and 80% plant matter (primarily fruits, and nuts, and other things easily accessable to the moving human.)

Fossilized fecal matter shows that the animal meat avalabe was extreamly lean. The most common meal was rat or snake, and other small game which could easily be caught. Bovine, which were large and difficult to catch were not a normal part of the hunter gatherors diet. Cows and pigs which are feed a diet of corn, growth hormons, and animal protien, did not exist as they do today. Early humans ate an extreamly small amount of saturated fat.

Today's meat has substantially more saturated fat, which contributes to American's obesity problem and many kinds of obesity realated illnesses, like heart desease, obesity and certain cancers.

Although, you may be true that the human body is developed to eat meat, but the human body did not develope to eat the meat available today.

Being that heart desease kills 1 out of 4 Americans, and schizophrenia effects 1 out of 20 Americans (and does not develope after the early 20's.) I'd much rather take my chances by being a vegetarian.