20 years on from hungerford.?

Question

Hi all, Now i by no means wish this to turn into a huge arguement but would like to see some honest intelligent answers.
First off let me say I am pro gun owership with proper rules, handling training, background checks etc. I believe that shooting is an excellent sport.

It is 20 years on from the tragedy that was the Hungerford massacre where a man walked down the street with an assault rifle shooting anyone he seen. My question is do you think if shooting was more accepted and encouraged he could have been stopped sooner? Or do you think it would have resulted in mass panic shooting. Also do you think if it was completly outlawed then as it pretty much is now the massacre would still have happened but only with something else such as a car or knives?


Do you think that gun owner ship should be allowed today in a country where only criminals have guns and good citizens do not.

Cheers,

Sorry i know gun owership is allowed in certain cases shotguns & rifles I should have made clear i was referring to hand guns and semi automatic rifles etc. I also should point out that i do not own a gun myself as you are made to feel a criminal if you wish to buy one.

If you look at statistics how many are comminted by legally owned guns? Same in Britain most gun crime is and always has been illegal guns not registered etc.

Crispy- Ban all guns 40 years hard labour thats stupid. Maybe for people who have guns illegally which banning hasn't stopped anyway. Why not ban cars they kill more people than guns in the UK or knives(again i am stopped from carrying a knife a useful tool for my work because of the criminal element of society)

Fiona M- Typical libral do gooder attitude my dear. It is becoming more like america yes? Such as all the gang culture? Tell me if handguns were banned where do they get them? Same place(back ally or a pub) as they would if they were legal anyway because illegal firearms are most often used incrimes.

bear-Glad to see a police firearms officer talking about this. Nice to have your opinion. Yes there is reason to have shotguns and rifles for vermin control etc. I myself have an interest in handgun target shooting and would love to have the chance to take up this sport but i do not. Its a shame that because of stupid laws in this country that our own olympics pistol team has to live and train abroad. I am afraid i have to disagree with you on the better of two evils as all correctly vetted,trained gun owners would not commit crime or allow their guns to be stolen and as you said yourself criminals will always get guns anyway. At least we would have our sport.

I would like to add that if i hear of a shooting i'm 90% sure that it will either be black person shot or a black person doing the shooting. So logically wouldn't it be better to do something about the gangs they are in rather than guns. If you look at statistics gun crime is up since the banning. Not only that how many police officers do you hear of being shot these days compared to 20 years ago.

I agree at the very least handguns and semi rifles should be held in a secure location like a club for target shooting but think about the amount of guns held in one location that if someone could by pass that security and get them.

oldpepy- Thank you for agreeing. However i do not believe that self defence is the main reason of owning a firearm. I believe that only damages the arguement for owner ship. My main reason is the sport. However i do agree that self defence is a handy by product of ownership and if it was more widely accepted then the shooter could possibly have been stopped sooner rather than later.

Bear- sorry to hear about your collegue. However I do still believe that firearms are acceptable if properly controlled and policed. As another user said if we followed the swiss example Michael Ryan would have been stopped almost immediatly. Unfortunatly you are right some people do fly off the rails but again what was to stop that person grabbing a kitchen knife and stabbing someone. At the very least handguns and semi auto rifles should be allowed to be purchased and held in gun clubs.
The thing with BB guns/Air rifles is semi ridiculous. Sometimes bb guns are treated as if they are actual firearms shopkeepers who sell them to youths should be prosecuted not legitimate skirmishers/target shooters etc. I believe that air rifles should be licenced but not to the strict extent of proper firearms licenceing i.e constant checks. Just a general application and vetting again so people can enjoy shooting safely without neds getting their hands on them so easily.

david d- i do not believe in god but if i did i would believe that all people who intended evil in life including to use guns to kill and main would be in hell being punished whereas in heaven i could do whatever i wanted as i wouldnt cause harm there or on earth to anything so there fore i could shoot til my heart is content. Perhaps we could use Hellbound people as targets maybe could would accept that?

little nell- Thanks for answering, interesting response some good points but again some sort of concealed carry permit could be introduced. A few people at hungerford were shot in their homes so ot doesn't mean that everyone would be walking around with guns in their pockets.

pirate_princess- look closer at the statistics and you will find its mostly drug related gang wars with illegally obtained guns much as it is here.

Answer 1

I am against all guns in Britain myself it is already becomming more and more like America who do not seem to do that much about weapons at all. If you want to use a gun so much why not apply to the Police force the London Force especially they seem a bit trigger happy. If you have a suntan
and carry a holdall you could become an instant target.
I am sure there must be a fairground near you they often have
a shooting game. Cost you alot less than buying proper ammo. No Guns are for sad men who like to play at soldiers.If you join up and carry a gun you know what the outcome could be?

Answer 2

We all have the right to bare arms. However, being a responsible owner of a handgun myself, I do believe that everyone should be able to protect their homes and families. With that being said, I do believe that no weapon should be sold to anyone without a complete criminal background check. There are far too many illegal weapons out there belonging to gang members, criminals, etc. But getting a grasp on that and some sort of control is easier said than done. In the state of Texas you can walk around the streets with a gun on your hip and it's legal. The argument over gun control will always be on going just like the death penalty. Personally, I am for the right to bare arms. But with proper responsibilities and proper registration by all gun owners. Maybe if more of us owned legal weapons, there would be less criminals hurting innocent people.

Answer 3

I think gun laws in the UK are not too bad at the minute. the type of guns allowed are acceptable and the law asesses you as to your suitability to own one.
I do not think hand guns and automatic rifles should be owned by members of the public but i also think they should be accessable at gun clubs with the correct security measures in place.
If someone wants to go to a club and use guns for target practice in secure, controlled conditions then why not?
Shooting is a discipline like many others, sadly most people do not understand this.
I think crime involving guns or knives should carry exceptionally high consequences to try and deter people from being involved in them.
Sadly no matter what you do there is always a bad apple somewhere that gets through the net as is the case in every topic you look at.
This is just life as bitter as it seems sometimes, especially if you are on the receiving end of something tragic!
If we keep trying to completely ban everything that ever hurt anyone then where would we be!!!!!!!!!
Managed sensibly there are many bigger dangers out there!

Answer 4

Good question.... and a star.

I think the current legislation is just about right. People are allowed to have shotguns (after being vetted of course) and air weapons. This will never be 100% perfect but we can only do our best. Recently legislation was brought in which banned air weapons from being carried in a public place (without reasonble excuse or lawful authority). This can be policed with use of good old common sense. Likewise replica firearms were also banned from public places.

I agree that shooting is a good sport but wouldn't like to see handguns legalised like in the USA. I think this would cause us more problems than not.

Criminals will always be able to get access to firearms, we just need to work hard to remove more illegal guns from circulation and give tough sentences to those that carry and use them indiscriminately. I think if citizens had legally owned guns then offenders committing crime would be more inclined to carry firearms to counteract what they might come accross. This should never be the case. We would slowly but surely end up like the States.

We do try to counter the individuals who carry firearms illegally but as I'm sure you're aware, its an uphill battle. It is however the better of two evils.

EDIT - I have to disagree with you about legally owned guns. It has been known for legal owners to go off the rails. Only a few months ago a firearms colleague was shot and killed attending a domestic incident. The firearm was legally owned for vermin destruction. No amount of vetting can be bulletproof (if you excuse the pun).

Also regarding gun crime and gangs - I do agree with you on this aspect. My force have identified all the gangs and we actively target them. Most are of black origin. Thats a fact. Unfortunately it doesn't stop the shootings. Its mostly drug dealers shooting at drug dealers. They still occur but we can only do our best.

We also provide a very good input to school children. Education on gun crime is just as important. It has drastically cut incidents of youths with weapons in our county (air rifles/ BB guns), which allows us to spend more time on the real criminals.

EDIT2 - I agree with some of your comments that weapons should be allowed and strictly controlled for sporting purposes. I find it ridiculous that our Olympic shooting team have to go abroad to practise. I also agree that if someone wanted to harm someone else then they could easily pick up a knife. It just so happens that you are far more at risk of being knifed than shot.

Answer 5

Had it been Switzerland where every one does national service and all houses have an assault rifle he would only have shot his family and one person in the street before he him self was shot.
Doesn't the fact that gun crime has increased since hand guns were banned after the Dunblain shootings rather prove legally held guns never were a real problem?
You can't legislate against the random mad man, but if carrying a gun was permissible if you met the police marksman standards there would be a lot more people in a position to stop them when they happened.

Answer 6

Hello, Posse of armed men and women adrenalin pumping through their blood no thanks,one man with very much the same did enough.Guns? more armed police might work or will it end in more armed criminals,I like to think that we can defend our homes I am trying to answer you without political statements coming into the answers,maybe three persons volunteers to a area neighbour-hood - watch like aloud to hold gun permits would work? Yes why should we be restrained from protecting our selves and families. Would criminal think twice knowing that some where they will get back what they give out. Yours was a good question i would like to ask one back. Cant we just alter the human rights bill and when caught carrying knife or gun on our streets is found INTENT which carries a real life sentence because gutless politicians will never protect us. KICK the good do"ers up the ****.

Answer 7

This is a difficult one but I think on balance I like things the way they are. You are obviously a responsible person and would use a gun purely for recreational purposes but unfortunately there are a lot of nutters out there. If someone does go berserk they will probably find some way of destroying life but a gun is a very efficient tool when it comes to sudden death.
To have stopped the shooting at Hungerford would have involved people going about their day to day business with a gun in their pocket or handbag. I find that scenario horrifying.

Answer 8

The failure at Hungerford and another case at about the same time was the rules and checks were not applied properly. Those holding guns legally usually took great care not to break the rules. I do not know if their is any relation to the banning of handguns but gun crime seems to have increased since then. Mainly it would seem black on black and drug related in some way

Answer 9

The shooting tragedies in Hungerford and Dunblane where very sad indeed.
For the Governments of the time these unfortunate incidents where the excuse they needed to curb legal gun ownership in the UK.
Both individuals involved in these heinous acts would have carried on shooting what ever.
What has taking legally held firearms off the streets achieved?
It's much easier to obtain an illegal firearm than a legal one.
As a legal holder of firearms I am all for holding them. I have a legitimate use for them shooting game and clays.



EDIT- Thank you for your input PC Plod. The Incidents involving illegal firearms out weigh the legally held ones. 99.9% of us guys are pretty safe with our firearms.
the Met firearms team shot and killed an un armed man on the tube, maybe you guys go off the rails too!!

Answer 10

The problem is not gun ownership its the ability for anyone to buy illegal guns. My own opinion like hunting is if the law allows it then fine. However if we want to stop gun or knife crime they have to be banned. The sentence for illegal guns has to be 10 years same if you carry a knife with no reason. However to shoot in a private club the guns locked up and supervised I see no problem.