Israel or Palestine?Look at details( mandatory)?

Question

This is not a bi-partisan post. Pick one and explain. Answers will be chosen on basis of explanation not bias.
QUESTION: Recently I heard an explanation that there is no Palestine, since Palestine was just a Greek invention of a name for the Ancient Land of Israel, etc. But mostly the argument was about that Palestine can't exist b/c its just an old name for Israel. It said to look at it this way: Siam was an old name of Thailand, Persia was an old name of Iran, Burma was an old name for Myanmar. Similarly, Israel used to be called Canaan, the land of Israel ( eretz Israel in Hebrew) then Judea, then Palestine, then finally the modern day Israel. The question is: is Palestine a real country, or merely an old name for a country that was taken advantage of by the Arabs and do the modern day "Palestinians"( if we assume uncertainty) need to smell the roses and get on with their lives?

Answer 1

When people say 'there is no Palestine,' what they mean is that there has never been an independent nation called Palestine. The Romans renamed Judea, which they occupied, "Palestine," (based on the ancient Philistines, who were Greek), in an attempt to weaken the Jews' ties to the land. In later ages the area called Palestine was part of a larger empire (Byzantine, Ottoman). The Arabs usually considered it to be part of Syria.

Historically, there was never a distinct ethnic group called Palestinians. Prior to the establishment of the Israel, it was actually the Jews in the region who were called Palestinians. The Arabs in the region were called...Arabs.

These points are often stressed because the Arabs have tried to convince the world that the Palestinians have been there forever and the Jews came and stole their land. The Jews did have an independent nation before the Greek, Roman, and Muslim invaders -- at that time there were no Palestinians.

There were Arabs living in the region prior to the modern Jewish return, which began in the 1880's. However, the Arab population was small (accounts from 19th century travellers, including Mark Twain, remark on how sparse the country is). When the Jews settled (on land purchased from Arab or Ottoman owners), they created jobs, resulting in a large influx of Arabs from neighboring countries. So most of today's "Palestinians" are actually Egyptians, Jordanians, Syrians, etc. if you go back just a few generations.

So, no, Palestine never was an actual country -- and Palestinians are not a distinct ethnicity; they could blend with Syrians, Lebanese, Jordanians, Egyptians as easily as Americans could blend with Canadians -- if the other Arabs would let them.

The Palestinians born in refugee camps in Arab nations like Lebanon and Syria should be given citizenship in those or other Arab nations and allowed to take jobs and build real lives instead of being kept as a pawns in the Arab world's campaign against Israel.

For their own sake, the Palestinians should get on with their lives. The West is falling all over itself trying to give them a state, and would give them billions of dollars in aid if they would use it to build housing, schools, industry, instead of investing their time, energy, money trying to destroy Israel.

Answer 2

Palestine has no Arabic or Muslim meaning. As you say, Palestine is derived from the Philistines, a Greek sea people who lived along the coast contemporary with the ancient Israelites. The story goes that after the Jewish revolt against the oppresive Roman tyranny was suppressed, the Romans wanted to downplay any connection between the Jews and their land. They then investigated and found a mention of the Philistines in the history, and decided to call the land Palestine after them instead of Judea which came from Judah, the Israelite tribe that controlled that area. Since then until 1948 the region was called Palestine. The term "Palestinian" meant someone from Palestine, and had no bearing on one's nationality or religion. For instance, during the British Mandate of Palestine, Jews who moved to Israel were simply called Palestinian Jews. As such, what you say is true: there is no Palestine being covered over with Israel. Israel IS Palestine, under a different name. This is not only true geographically, which was the argument you presented and the one I supported, but is also true nationalisticly. There was never a country called Palestine, and certainly not one inhabitted nearly exclusively by Arabs. Palestine was only ever a geographical term. Modern day Palestinians attempt to claim primary descent from the ancient Philistines so that they can then claim that Palestine is exclusively theirs. Even if it were true (which it does not seem to be from a genetic analysis point of view), as the Philistines never had a country called Palestine the argument would be irrelevant. Palestine is a matter of semantics and nothing more. Furthermore, a Palestinian national identity didn't arise until the 1960's, but that's neither here nor there.
Despite all this, the modern day Palestinian issue is not that simple. I honestly believe that if the Arab countries around Israel had settled their Palestinian Arab refugees (like Israel did with the equal number of Jewish refugees who fled their homes in Arabia) there would be no refugee issue today. At that point in history there was no nationlistic inclination among the Arabs in what was then Palestine. There's no reason there should have been; the British and French arbitrarily divided the Arabs in the Middle East into different groups while no such divisions existed before. All Arabs were essentially the same in the region. However, the Arab countries prefered to use the refugees as political pawns and kept them unsettled where the culture of terror was born. There are 1.5 million Arabs in the West Bank, and something must be done with them. It seems that there is nothing to do with them but find a way to give them a state.

Answer 3

No, the argument is the following:

There was never an independent state called Palestine.
There was a colony called Palestine at one point in history. At one point it was part of the Ottoman Empire and at one point it was part of the British Empire. After 1948, that entity ceased to exist.

Before 1948, the term "Palestinians" was generally applied to Jews who lived in that area.
Reference to the Arabs from that area as "Palestinians" only began in popular usage starting in the 1960s.

The basic issue is the following: Israel stands accused of occupying (and in some cases accusing of merely being) Palestine. Such an accusation implies that the land belonged (and by belonged we mean "sovereign state") to Palestinian Arabs. But the truth is that was NEVER the case.

If one wants to accuse Israel of occupying Palestine then they'd have to accuse Jordan of doing so from 1948-1967. But NO ONE (to my knowledge) does this. And there was no significant movement to "liberate" the West Bank from Jordan during that time.

Answer 4

It was a name given by the Romans to the former Province of Judea (Iudea in Latin) after the Jewish rebellion. It was intended to humiliate the Jewish population as it was based of the name of the Philistines who were enemies of Israel.

There has never been a Palestinian state and the "Palestinian" problem is just a stick used by the Arab nations to beat Israel with (Except Jordan which is the only Arab nation to give Palestinians full citizenship).
The original leader of the PLO, Yasser Arafat, was the son of an Egyptian textile merchant who was well known in Egypt.

Answer 5

Israel.

tuty, what traditions do you have that are different then Syrian or Egyptian? WTF are you talking about?!?
Traditions like beheading people are carried throughout the entire Middle East, not just Gaza.
Suicide bombings? Maybe that is exclusively YOUR tradition, but it was born after the birth of Israel.
You are Syrians, and Egyptians. Some of you are Saudis and Iraqis. Open the Arab newspaper from the 1920s and it will prove my point, the only "palestinians" in those times were Jews.


msafwat I think you are 100% right. No one shouldn't care that Jews prayed for 2000 years facing Jerusalem, hoping every day to one day be back. It is fine, no one should care! But no one should also care that a bunch of Arabs left their home 60 years ago to help Jewish genocide, and were not let back in.

Answer 6

it's an Old name gave by romans.. as well it was used during bizantine empire, after that the arabs take that name.. I think the palestinians are the people who dont feel identify with the judaism, they are muslims and christians.. most of them have time living in the holy land before the islamic empire.. they adopted the arab as their language.

Answer 7

This isn't an either or situation. The reality is there is this group who are called Palestinians and they do exist. If they would simply stop trying to annihilate the Israelis and accept their country as being the West Bank and the Gaza Strip then they would live better lives - but they don't and the battling will continue.

Good Luck!!!

Answer 8

When the British were in control of Israel before it became a state made against the wishes of all the surrounding Arab Countries... the area was called Palestine. 1920-1940s. All old photographs made during those times refered to the people in and around Jerusalem as Palestinians. The Balfour declaration had stated: it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

So yes there was and is a place called Palestine... it forever lies in the hearts of all Palestinians & nothing can or will ever change that.

Answer 9

What is this obsession about history and geography while the problem is mainly a demographical problem. Countries and States are not just about land but mainly about the people.


Why should we care who lived on this land thousands of years ago, and where does the Palestinians or Israelis come from.

As a starting point, we should all admit that the political map of the world is a contemporary issue that emerged after WWII when most boundaries were re defined and settled in accordance to the facts on the ground not some mythical scriptures or religious and historical theories and assumptions.

I don't see modern day Germans talking about Prussia. Even states as recent as Bosnia, Serbia and Montenegro have already forgotten and stopped talking about Yugoslavia.

So why do Israelis keep talking about what had happened in this part of the world during the Bronze age???!!! Why should we care??? They should keep their relgious beliefs about being the chosen people of God and the promised land to themselves, and stop trying to impose it on others who don't share their faith, So must Moslems keep their own religious theories to themselves... I think religion is a personal matter and has nothing to do with politics.

The facts today are that the Palestinians exist, and the Israelis are here to stay. It is internationally recognized that the solution of their problem is the two state solution with the pre 1967 borders as the boundaries between the two states. The State of Palestine should be established accordingly in the West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem. A solution to the refugee problem must be reached either by allowing them the right of return to their confiscated properties or by compensating them for it.

This is the escence of what the international community sees as fair through 100s of UN resolutions and declarations... The Majority of Arabs including the Palestinians have decalred their acceptance to those principles through the Arab League Initiative (King Abdullah Initiative in 2002). And we are still awaiting the reaction of Israel... We hear a lot of sweet talk from their part but there is no action...

Are Israelis really willing to achieve a comprehensive peace or are they just stalling and waisting time to make the most gains on the ground by building and expanding illegal settlments on Palestinian lands and Seizing more territories by the appartheid wall, all while trying to break the Palestinian will by the relentless campaign of death, destruction and blockades. Those do not look to me like the actions of someone who is craving for peace.

I'm sure I'll start hearing excuses like terrorism... and that some Palestinians deny the right of Israel to exist etc... etc... but at the end those are just that, excuses. You could never expect to achieve a concensus among any population in the world regardless of how homogenius they are... saying that you are waiting till every single Palestinian accepts the right of Israel to exist is just a waste of time... and a proof of bad intentions. Would you accept it if Arabs asked you equally to silence all the extremist right wing voices denying the rights of palestinians before we start talking to you?

Sorry for the long answer... I had started with the intention to make a short reply but it kind of got out of hand!!!

Answer 10

Both Wanderkind and Michael J have given really excellent answers.

I would just add that the 'Palestinian people' as we know them to day - i.e. Muslims - did not come into existence until around 1969, some two decades AFTER the creation of modern day Israel. Before then, they referred to themselves, and were referred to by others, as simply 'Arabs'.

Sadly, the points made in the answers I mentioned above are all but ignored by most people and also the media, especially in the UK.