“You’ll believe when you’re burning in hell!”?

Question

Well, yes, I guess I will. I could just reply, “Well, you won’t be a believer when you’re not burning in hell.” But that somehow lacks the punch of a truly powerful answer. If I “wake up” in hell, whatever that is, I expect that would be enough evidence for me to become a believer. And it may seem odd or even unfair that, if the Christian is right, he and I will presumably both find out that he is right, while not the opposite. (If the secular humanist/atheistic position is the right one, neither secular humanist nor Christian will “find out” anything after death.) But no one should mistake such a point for evidence that counts in favor of the believer being right.

When a religionist declares that I’ll become a believer when I’m suffering eternal torture, it does lead to a couple of interesting questions to ask him: 1. “Why is your god so sadistic as to provide conclusive evidence only after condemning me to endless unimaginable suffering, while giving me no credible evidence while

I still had a chance to act on it?” and, 2. “How can religionists reconcile their belief in a perfectly joyous afterlife with the belief that they will certainly know that some whom they love must writhe in agony forever?”

Answer 1

Yea, but do you really think there is a better religion out there than Christianity?







[Yes, that was sarcasm]



Welcome to one of the most avoided topics of Christians. If there God is what they say he is, he is a monster.

Answer 2

The Mormons (my ex-religion) have a different opinion that you might have not heard before. There are 3 degrees of heaven. The first being as beautiful as Earth is now, the second even better, and the third the best one of all. Someone from a "higher heaven" can go down and visit those in a lower version of heaven. This is the way that families with differing moral values can see each other. Only the first class passengers in heaven get to meet Jesus. Isn't this weird? According to the Mormon religion, nobody goes to hell unless they find the true gospel, (Mormonism), and then turn their back on it. I guess I am screwed eh?

Answer 3

I also wrestled with these questions...and came to the realization that ultimately I can only control part of what I do, and nothing of what others do. Any expectation more ambitious than this contitutes sin, and leads to frustration, anger, and destructive wrath (suffering). Letting go of the idea of 'control' is paramount to entering into the 'Kingdom' that Jesus referred to, as no one really ever had control of anything.
If that kind of 'Kingdom' is someone's idea of heaven, so be it...and if that is someone's idea of hell, so be that, as well. What difference does it make what anyone else thinks? I for one am glad to be released from all that unnecessary responsibility, and from being tormented by what others believe is 'right'.
And even if one is sworn to obedience in the military, one can still choose to obey or disobey any given order...on the grounds of legality. What happens after that is still not determined by any one person...but by an unknown number of contirbuting factors.
I also have come to think in terms of here and now, rather than the current popular 'christian' doctrine of the 'hererafter'.
How in the world do they know about the hereafter unless they listen directly to someone who does? And how are they supposed to know whether or not that person who claims to know is telling them the truth? I do not discount such claims, but I cannot fully support them either, without some kind of mutual experience with them, ie: firsthand experience. This would mean a personal 'death and resurrection' experience would be necessary to know for certain if the hereafter is real.
Do you know, or have you known, anyone with this qualification? If so, talking to them might be an enlightening thing for you. They are around, and you will find them if you start asking the right questions. Happy hunting!

Answer 4

the concept of a fiery place of torment such as 'hell' is not a bible teaching.It is a man made doctrine designed to frighten churchgoers into giving the priests more money to pray for their 'souls'.
It just does not make sense that a God of love would create us to live for 80/90 years,to then only suffer for all eternity.
The Bible teaches that when we die we cease to exist.We do however remain in God's memory and await a resurrection.

Answer 5

1: You don't define what "conclusive evidence" is. Is it evidence that forces one to believe that God exists? And in anything scientific, does one find conclusive evidence that forces one to believe something. No, everyone still has to make the choice to believe or not.

But still, we are only talking about the belief about God's existence. And is that the kind of "belief" that brings about salvation. I don't think so. It has been said numerous times in religion, that the devil believes that God exists. But, "belief about" is not the same as "belief in."

It is rather placing one's trust in God that, allowing God to act in one's life by handing over one's will to him, that brings about salvation. And don't get me wrong... when I say "handing over one's will," I don't mean becoming a mindless robot, but rather recognizing that God is God and that we are not and that God wills our holiness and salvation so that we can have communion with one another and with him. So God's will is an invitation as much as a command, and he wishes our free response and not our being constrained.

There is plenty of evidence of God, but He is courteous enough not to impose himself on others. If others wish to not pay attention to His presence and His signs and be obstinate in sin and in ignorance, He allows them that freedom.

By the way, the last part of the question contradicts the first part. Credible evidence is not necessarily the same thing as conclusive evidence. One can put together plenty of credible things without the conclusion that is reached being necessarily conclusive.

2: True joy is about love, and joy is not the same as pure happiness. Also, there is a difference between the heaven one would experience now and the heaven of the escaton or end times. Joy leaves room for pain and suffering and is something deeper than happiness. Happiness only looks at the surface, the emotions one experiences, while joy can still be present even if one is in pain. That those in heaven would be saddened by the suffering of those in hell would be about love and compassion. Since love and compassion bring joy, this "suffering," this concern and compassion (suffering with) would actually be an expression of love and thus bring about joy. Sounds sadistic. But only because in this world of ours we are so concerned about the lack of pain for ourselves and so our idea of heaven is a place where there is no pain or sorrow.

It is true that we hear in Revelation that the will be no more pain or sorrow or suffering in heaven, but what we must remember is that these references have to do with heaven after the second coming and the resurrection of the dead. Now, we are in a state of yearning for the completion and I think that that yearning is also experienced by the souls in heaven. This yearning will be done away with when the kingdom of God is established, as everything will be completed... the resurrection will have taken place (for all, not just the righteous) and the final judgment will have confirmed the particular judgment of each person allowing them to experience their eternal reward or punishment in body and in spirit. As there will be no one else to worry about saving, those in heaven will focus their attention completely on the One who is All in All, God. With this complete communion of the person, body and soul, with God, I think there will be more important things to focus on than the loss of any loved ones who did not accept God's merciful love.

But that's just my take on it.

Answer 6

I don't know how someone would reconcile knowing their loved ones were burning in hell. That would suck. Good thing my religion doesn't believe it is that simple to get into hell. We don't ascribe to the if you are saved good job, if you aren't you are going to burn.
I sure hope we are right because it really doesn't seem fair that just because you were in the wrong religion you are going to hell.

Answer 7

Great Question....however, everyone is allowed their opinion and i think that we create our own hell while living...here and now, until we reach a point in our life where we are content and happy with ourselves and free of "the good opinions of others"

I dont know how they do it, but it continues....

Blessings To All
)o(
Trinity

Answer 8

No, your reply needs to be, "if I deserve hell, then don't you also deserve hell?" And the reply better be, "yes." If they are Christians, they must by definition be able to look at their own sinful nature and reply that they deserve exactly what you get, they have only had their eyes opened courtesy of the Holy Spirit. They have nothing to brag about. That should put them in their place if they aren't there already.

Answer 9

1. Who said that to you? Most likely not a bible believing Christian. We are commanded by God to "tell the truth in love". Hell for an atheist is eternal separation from God, which is in itself agony, since God is all things good. (Refer to the bible for all the names of Jesus, as His names are the same as His characteristics and traits). God does not force Himself on anyone, when you die without Him, it was your own choice.
God is not sadistic, He is perfect and holy. Also, you will have no excuse, He tells us we can know of His existence, through His creation. May I suggest something? Read the Holy Bible. Do a search for yourself, that's how I know what I'm speaking of. I wasn't raised in a bible believing household.

Answer 10

Go to the Society and Culture forum, look in the lesbian and gay section and check some of Dr Doris questions and answers. These should help you make up your mind.
Rose P.