Cross -VS- upright poll...Is it necessary to essential Christian Doctrine?

Question

Not nearly as important as The Trinity or Hellfire or the rapture or saved by grace-V-works....don't you think?

It kind of reminds me of arguing over whether one was killed with a Bow and arrow or just the arrow.

Anna I see your point but I believe there are things that Christians can disagree on and things thay can't...I believe that the Cross is importand, but isit a doctrin that you can lose salvation over?

Good thought Anna

jjo6.....LOL ..LOL...LOL...keep your mind out of your pants and focus on God...I remimber that WBTS crap.....let us see how many Christians your comment offends.

Answer 1

Either way they are phallic symbols that were absorbed early on.

Steeples are the upright pole/phallus and the cross is descendant of the ankh.

Except for Revelation 20:10(KJV) Hell and hellfire have little support anywhere else as in these words are the pit, the grave, and place of darkness(nothingness- tartarus).

Trinity came into doctrine after the two Nicean councils and had some support with some factions before. There are many Non-trinitarians, and about half a dozen verses that Trinitarians say are irrefutable.

Rapture is not accepted by the majority of Christians but seems to be growing.

Grace is doctrine and has been from the start. Christians having the change in heart naturally work for God.

There are those that have to work at being Christian and giving because of their mind lends to selfishness and vanity. Yet it is by Grace for these members of God's family too.

What happens is this:
Little by little good and true Christianity is poisoned by false doctrine. And more and more obviously pagan ideas and symbols are added. A person sees this and runs away knowing this"Christianity" is a lie. Now comes along a teacher of God and this teacher has to unteach a lot of garbage and reteach God's word.

So is it important - yes. Does it really matter - only to the extent that so much has to be retaught and re aligned with God's word. Keep the poison out in the first place.

L.P.
NOT JW and not one link is JW. If "Christians" are offended then they ought to look at what they use for symbolism,
but the truths the truth. Some stuff the JWs do have correct. But a bit is wrong. Now this can offend one and all.

HERE:
Many people spout off John 3:16 but ignore the importance of the previous two verses.

John 3:
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Question: What exactly did Moses raise up in the wilderness?
Question: What does Jesus prophesy would be raised up?
Question: Why do people raise "this" up?

So ultimately - yes I do think it is important.

What Moses raised up had origin in paganism. This too must be known about the cross.

Joy -JJ

Answer 2

I have a friend through my wife that does not know my particular religious learning.

He believes the Trinity, Hellfire, and the Rapture. But he is against the cross and detests crucifixes.

"Jesus is no longer on the cross", he says; "He is risen".

I understand his point.

I think it was a cross and it really does not matter. What matters is that God gave His only begotten Son, and His Son gave His life for the remission of sin.

As far as symbolism - a cross is a pretty universal symbol of Christianity. That is good but, many many folks just wear it because it is a cool icon or piece of jewlery. Displaying a cross or wearing one does not make a person a Christian.

Neither a cross nor crucifix be bowed to or nor made obeisence to either. These most often are actions that are done in a church in front of people. Jesus taught against idolatry and public exhibition:
Matthew 6
5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

A Christian declares Christ is Lord, is baptized, and is a disciple of Christ.

Really what I see you asking is: Is this doctrine/symbol idolatry? And is it important?

If a cross is used as a symbol to other Christians - okay! If it is bowed down to and made holy - no.

There may have been many similar symbols that are pagan and this is why JWs and other faiths claiming Christ are against using the cross or crucifix.

So what if at one time it was one of many pagan signs - it is not what it stands for to a Christian.
I too liked Anna's thought. That was GOOD. JJ is correct in this - not offended. keiichi, Are Christians hiding their crosses or crucifixes? I think not. You may learn a bit from non JWs if...

Answer 3

That is what doctrine is all about, to keep each other at the throats of those with different faiths. Hellfire? Jonah prayed to go there instead of the belly of the whale, so that there should tell you it was not interpreted correctly. He prayed to be relieved of suffering, he prayed to go to the grave-to die. There is no hell.

We were made in "their" image (worded right out of the KJV), so we have the same power to correct what is imbalanced, why should we expect God to fix what we break? Forget the being saved notion as well as rapture, we should make things aright ourselves. No wonder he's patient!

Answer 4

No it isn't essential.

The shape isn't important, but the fact that Jesus died for our sins is.

It has nothing whatever to do with phallic symbols. Pagans also worshiped trees, which also has nothing to do with the fact that Jesus died on what was basically a tree.

A pole is a much more likely phallic symbol than a cross and there's just as much evidence to support the idea that a pole was a phallic symbol, as there is to say that a cross was.

Answer 5

I guess it is important to those who want to know and teach truth.
You see, at one point Jesus said "He that is faithful in the little things will be faithful in the big things" (paraphrased).
So, if it is important for a person to hold only to the things that are true, than it is important for them to seek out all of the truth.
If it isn't important to you, I can live with that.

Answer 6

1 Corinthians 1:17,18
For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power. For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
___

No, you can't lose your salvation over it.... but seeing a cross is a reminder (at least to me) of what God did for me, and how much He loves us. If I were to take all crosses away, I wouldn't have the visual reminder.... and to be 100% honest with you... I truly think that is part of Satan's plan with the JWs. Remove the reminder. Satan cannot function to his best ability when we are in constant reminder of our Savior.

Answer 7

It's a SYMBOL. It means something to someone. What if the "upright stake" contingent is right? What point do they want to prove? That SHAPE is important? Gnats and camels, kids.

Answer 8

>It's a SYMBOL. It means something to someone.

Isa 57:8 Behind your doors and your doorposts you have put your pagan symbols.

>So what if at one time it was one of many pagan signs

Trintarians admit they adopted a pagan symbol that represents their faith.