Concerning perspectives of faith and knowledge?

Question

Please don't accuse me of discrimination. I'm trying to be fair.

It seems perfectly sensible to expect the religious to be able to see from a non-religious point of view. We atheists/agnostics base what we know on what we see around us, much as the religious do in their daily lives. All humans do it; therefore, the religious should be able to grasp the non-religious perspective. I find, however, that they are FREQUENTLY unable.

So let's look at the other side.

The religious should be able to understand why it is difficult for an atheist/agnostic to see from the perspective of faith. Most of us think it is silly and ignorant (whether it is or not isn't my point) because it is based on what is unseen, on one of many holy texts in existence that all claim to be right, etc.

So, how can the religious expect us to see from their faith perspective if they refuse or are unable to see from a non-religious perspective based on observation?

James O: Of course. We're all human.

But I'm giving a reason behind it that doesn't make sense.

Believers use both faith and reason in their lives. Atheists use reason alone. Believers should be able to understand atheists, but it is understandable that atheists do not understand believers.

debbie: This is an example of what I mean. Only people who are already believers make that claim. If it were that simple for one who does not believe, most of us WOULD believe.

William D: I agree. I was raised to be Christian and turned from it. I even thought my faith was strong, but a Buddhist showed me otherwise. However, this just makes it stranger.

I used to be a fundamentalist, but no longer. Now, I do not even accept God without evidence. I went from one side to the other, so why is it that Christians like I used to be can't understand the other perspective?

richard b: That is known as Pascal's Wager, and it fails. You are only accounting for one possible God. It is just as likely that God will punish people who believe through faith rather than empirical evidence.

Montana: There is still evidence. We perceive things and understand how they work. If I had no liver, certain consequences would follow; I feel the wind, it must be there. God is not a necessity for us like the liver is, nor do we perceive God in any way. Therefore, I feel I have no reason to believe in God.

I don't really want this question to degenerate into "I believe this" vs. "I believe that," though...

jenx: No, you are misunderstanding. First of all, let me show you the simplified version I gave someone else:

Believers use both faith and reason in their lives. Atheists use reason alone. Believers should be able to understand atheists, but it is understandable that atheists do not understand believers.

Now, you are telling me that you base what you believe on perception. But that is only a rare few. I assume you believe because of certain life experiences or because you were raised to believe a certain way. You look around you and see proof of God because you ALREADY believe in God. There is no way of using logic to show that nature -> God.

Doris: You say that "most of us think it is silly or ignorant (whether or not isn't my point)" is unkind. I am being fair when I say "whether it is or not isn't my point." I am allowing the possibility that faith is not silly and ignorant.

To the rest of what you said, all the things you mention are things we can perceive and study (like air). We cannot perceive God through any of our senses. This is how you are failing to see from our viewpoint.

I'll be busy now, so don't expect responses to answers for a while.

By the way, people... as I said to someone else, I HAVE seen both perspectives. I used to be Christian.

wadkinsjames: I think you are a better person than I will ever be, though of course 'better' is relative and I cannot know the future.

Answer 1

Greetings Friend,

I just answered another one of your question and it inspired me to answer this one as well. You are correct. Those that believe in God should be able to see the point of view that those who don't believe in God have. For example, most people were not born believers.

However, not only that, what reason do we ever give those that don't believe? It cannot be because we show them such great love. We think we can convince others by using words. That's insane! Because if one could believe in God with reason, we would not need faith. That's why it is called FAITH because we cannot prove it. We have no real evidence. We have only so much reason and that is it. The rest we believe because we have faith.

Yet, our faith seems to really do nothing for us. If it did, we would do instead of speak. My dearest Moreth, I realize now that we can never convince you with words, but hopefully we can some day convince you by showing you love.

I know their have been times in my life that I wondered where the H*** is God. Those that I believed were godly, abandoned me, but some how I still believed. I guess I saw enough love, or saw how God loved me so much that I just cannot not believe.

I am so sorry that I have not shown you that kind of love. That love is real. I know that my words are meaningless and I know that I cannot prove God. I can see where you are coming from, but I hope that some day you will catch a glimpse of how much you are loved and then you will not believe but you will know.

sending love,

Answer 2

I agree with you 100%, Moreth. You are correct that Christians, and maybe other religious people (I'm not one of the others so I won't speak for them) ought to be able to see the other side of the argument and understand where atheists and agnostics are coming from. But, you see, it's really hard for most of them, just like its really hard for most atheists or agnostics to appreciate our side. The reason is, and this will make sense to you, I know, is that many Christians have been raised in the faith since their birth and they've only seen the world from that point of view. It's like being born with sun glasses on and never taking them off. You cannot imagine what the colors look like because you've never had the glasses off. Similarly, atheists who have never experienced Christianity, have only been raised on attending church once a year when they were kids or maybe never, or something like that, only see the world through their own set of goggles and can't see it as the Christians see it.

I've been really fortunate. I've been a Christian for bout 30 years, an agnostic or atheist for the 20 or so years before that. So I have seen both sides and can understand both sides. But most people don't have that perspective.

It is absolutely imperative that Christians stop criticizing non-believers and try to see things from their point of view. That's what Jesus did. He only got mad at hypocrits.

Answer 3

That's a large part of the reason why the believers are generally unable to support their positions here. The vast majority of believers have always believed in god, and of course live in a culture in which belief in god (and the supernatural in general) is the default position. Belief in god permeates essentially everything about our culture, so it's very difficult for a believer to see things from an alternative perspective.

The typical atheist, in the U.S., at least, was a believer, and so has seen things from both perspectives. As a result, the typical atheist does have a pretty good understanding of where the believer is coming from - that's why you don't see the atheists here making the kinds of unwarranted assumptions about believers that so many of the believers make about atheists.

Now, I do see some believers here who have obviously made an honest and fairly successful attempt to understand other perspectives, and I see others who are just beginning to make the attempt but are obviously sincere about it. I have high hopes that will bear some fruit in the future.

Answer 4

It wasn't that long ago that I was sitting on the other side of that fence and throwing rocks. Now that I have kept searching and reading the scriptures, things that seemed silly started to make sense. I had to do some research in some areas, but it was like a light coming on. Now I realize how hard it is to explain though and I really regret a lot of the barbs that I used to throw at the faith.
Fortunately, we don't have to check our brains at the door and can try to relate and answer those issues. I may not have the answers, but have some good resources that I can point people to in a pinch.

Answer 5

Read your question again. You didn't ask it from both sides, you ask the same question from two different view's. I do understand your right to believe any way you want to. But now for the other side. It seems perfectly sensable to expect an atheist to see from a believers point of veiw.We as Christians base what WE know on things we see around us as you say. And in the same veiw since all humans do it, shouln't you also be able to grasp the religious perspective. I find the same thing about some atheist that they are unable to do it. Some of you atheists should be able to understand why it is difficult for Christians to see from the perspective of non faith.because it is based on Gods word, and on each of our own experiances with God. So how can you expect me to see from your perspective when you won't try to see from mine. It works two ways, cutting both sides. Think of that.

Answer 6

My question to you is this. How could there not be a God? If you look around,listen and take in all around you do you think that man did this.Anything of beauty and even dis pare comes from a higher being. Is it God well to me it is but I can see where others find their faith or whatever you want to call it else where. It goes to the old adage what is right for me may not be right for you.I believe there is a God and my faith through things that have happened for no apparent reason except from a higher power leads me to the thought of God. We each find our own time and space to have faith it is not something you can will it is what God puts on your heart when you are ready. I can understand your point but understand mine as well.

Answer 7

Wow! large question! For me faith is a 'concept' or an 'expectation' of something with none data. It comes from my attitude and my understand-how. To develop this I prepare my faith (Buddhism) and learn. in view that i'm quite of a 'maverick' whilst it contains my 'faith' i will't discover the 'line' between faith and radicalism. I appreciate the perspective of others and what their ideals are and that i draw the line there. i will't stress everyone to take my 'faith' yet i will tutor them MY way. thank you on your question

Answer 8

I don't belong to a religion and I'm very open minded, but, and here is the but you don't believe. I do believe in God sight unseen. There are many things in this world that we cannot see but we still believe in there existence like the simple passing of gas. You can't see your liver, but you know it's there. When you get sick, you can't see the germ but you know it's there. And all the other technical stuff that lets you sit and use your computer. Just my thoughts on the subject.

Answer 9

OK, let us look at this from another angle. as Christians we believe that when we die, we will, because we believe that Jesus died on the cross for our sins, ascend to the spiritual realm known as heaven. but let us say that there is no god, and that when we die that is the end. if we look at it that way, then what have we as Christians lost? nothing

now let us look at is as an atheist. i don't believe in god, Christians are wrong for their beliefs there is nothing after death. now when i die, i find that indeed Christians were right, there is a god, and i am separated from him for eternity. what have i lost? everything.

Answer 10

I can only speak for myself, not a group of people......I am
one of many. Each is unique and has his or her own perspective on a faith based life or lack of one.
I do not expect a non-spiritual person to see from my perspective. I only ask that as I respect his right not to believe,
I stand on my right to believe.
To state that "most of us think it is silly or ignorant (whether
or not isn't my point) because it is based on what is unseen,
on one of many holy texts in existence that all claim to be
right, etc." is not a very kind statement if you are trying to
be fair, as you claim early on in your question.
I have not found the need to state that atheists, agnostics,
pagans, Mulims, Jews, or any variety of Christian religions
aside from my own faith is "silly or ignorant" simply because
I have not taken the time to study or attempt to understand
why they may choose to believe (or not).
In terms of believing in what our human eyes cannot see......
the next time you see love, please let me know...I wouldn't
want to think it doesn't exist simply because others might
not see it......
The next time you see air.....let me know, I can't see it,
but need it to breathe......
My cats can see in the dark, but I can't. I cannot see what
they do, I lack their accuity in darkness....but that doesn't
mean that what I cannot see in the dark does not exist,
does it?
How scientific minded are you? Do you realize when you
gaze at the majesty of our universe there are many things
your eyes do not actually see? They are there, none the
less.
Do you realize that science now theorizes that there
are multi dimensions? There is so much more to our
lives, our planet, solar system, universe and perhaps
even other dimensions.....I would never claim that I do
not believe in what I cannot see.
Nor would I call names or make light of what others claim
to believe (or not) or see.......
Remember that there are many, many people of faith
who are geniuses, who are degreed scientists....who
have mastered many things on this planet in terms of
learning.....they are not stupid or silly.
They see things differently than you do.
That's all.
I have had friends who fit each category (multiple religious backgrounds, pagan, atheist, agnostic) , and I am thankful
that we can talk and share and enjoy our lives without
calling names that are belittling. If you have not met
or made friends in diverse groups, that is very sad, you
are cutting yourself off from some wonderful people......

I wish you all the best,
Doris
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