Jesus God or King - Q #2?

Question

I've asked before but I have new findings.

Jesus mentions many times to worship his God YHWH and that no one is good but his father and God.

The references to Jesus as any sort of deity was made by men - disciples and apostles (John1, etc.)

What do you all think of that?

I and the father are one can simply mean they are unified, one in purpose, of the same mind - not necessarily they are the same as in the same person.

Mat 26:63- because he said he was the son of god - not that he was god.

and that he was king of the jews.

Answer 1

Jesus NEVER said he was God, although many people think he did when he said at John 8:58: "Before Abraham was I AM." Note other translations:

Chas. Williams’ The New Testament: “Then Jesus said to them, ‘I most solemnly say to you, I existed before Abraham was born.’”

A. S. Lewis’ “The Four Gospels” According to the Sinaitic Palimpsest: “He said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I have been.”

The Twentieth Century New Testament: “‘Believe me,’ Jesus replied, ‘before Abraham was born I was already what I am.’”

G. M. Lamsa’s The Modern New Testament: “Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham was born, I was.”

Jas. Murdock’s The Syriac New Testament: “Jesus said to them: Verily, verily, I say to you, That before Abraham existed, I was.”

F. Pfaefflin’s Das Neue Testament (German): “Jesus: ‘Before there was an Abraham, I was already there [war ich schon da]!’”

C. Stage’s Das Neue Testament (German): “Jesus said to them: ‘Truly, truly, I say to you: Before Abraham was born, I was [war ich].’”

F. Delitzsch’s Hebrew New Testament and that by Salkinson-Ginsburg both have the verb in the perfect form “I have been” (haiithi) instead of in the imperfect form.

If Jesus was claiming to be God at John 8:58, then he contradicts himself later at John 14:28 when he said: "The Father is greater than I am." Also, at John 17:3, he called his Father the ONLY true God. So how could Jesus ever say he was God?

Making Jesus equal to God came about at the Council of Nicea in 325 CE. The trinity followed in 362 at the Councilof Alexandria and later confirmed at the Council of Constantinople of 381 CE.

Answer 2

Hi Spaced Guy. This is an excellent question. Part of the difficulty is that different scriptures point in different directions. As an example, the gospel of Mark has very few claims that Jesus was anything but the Messiah.

On the other hand, the gospel of John states pretty openly that Jesus is God. Remember when Thomas is confronted by the Resurrected Lord, he responds: "My Lord and My God". Jesus does not rebuke him or point him to the Father.

Also in the Revelation (which in fairness John also wrote) Jesus identifies himself as the Alpha and the Omega. This is language that had previously only been used of God. It appears here that Jesus acknowledges that he is divine.

The answer to this is of course in Trinitarian Theology. However, that theology is not entirely Biblical (By which I mean it is drawn from scripture yet no passage of scripture clearly defines the Trinity). The only verse that identifies the Trinity directly is the Great Commission which many early manuscripts don't include.

What do I believe? As was affirmed by the Nicene Creed, Jesus is fully man and fully God. How is a mystery, the mystery of the Trinity. When he was on earth, he spoke as a man and spoke to his Father. He was fully man. In his return to heaven, he has assumed his place with the Godhead and is fully man and fully God.

Pastor John

Answer 3

God consists of two beings: God the Son (Jesus) and God the Father. So Jesus too is God as spoken in Gen.1:26 says "let us...in our..." Just as there is one Church composed of many members (1 Cor. 12:12-13), so also the One God is composed of more than one member of Godhead.

The individual members of the Godhead are identified in John 1:1-3, 1:14.
Colossians 1:12-19 notes how the two members of the Godhead are identified.

Deut. 6:4 suggests that "the Lord our God is One Lord" but in order to put the two togther you must also read John 17: 11, 17:21-22 and John 10:30.
I think and believe exactly what the Bible tells me. Thanks for the question, it refreshed my memory. Remain blessed.

Answer 4

Good question. If I understand it right. First, the Bible shows that there is a difference between 'Almighty God' and 'Jesus'(John 17:3) Almighty God(Psalm 83:18) is the 'father' of Christ.(Mat.3:16,17) Second, at Mat 6:9,10, Jesus (Not God) told his disciples to pray for 'God's' kingdom to come. Daniel 2:44 tells us what that kingdom will do. We can liken this kingdom to a government. Just think, for one thing, a government has a ruler, Jesus Christ is the ruler of 'God's' kingdom now.(Hebrews 1:2,3;1 Pet. 3 21b,22). After Jesus died, he ascended to heaven(Acts 2:33) Hence, that is where God's kingdom is. That is why this kingdom is called a "Heavenly kingdom"(2 Tim 4:18) 1 Cor. 15:50 says that flesh cannot inherit God's kingdom. So Jesus would need to be a spirit to rule God's kingdom. And since he is a ruler in the spirit relm. he can rightly be called (a) god.

Answer 5

First of all, all scripture is God- breathed, divinely inspired by God. Nothing that was written in God's Holy Word is any less than that - His Word.

In the book of Revelation we see God being worshiped and Jesus being worshiped.

Equal worship for equal deities. There are many other places from Genesis through Revelation that show Jesus' deity. Read and study the Bible, pray for wisdom as you do.

Answer 6

Hey

His claim to be G-d:

1 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. And His disciples were hungry, and began to pluck heads of grain and to eat. 2 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to Him, “Look, Your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath!”
3 But He said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him: 4 how he entered the house of God and ate the showbread which was not lawful for him to eat, nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests? 5 Or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless? 6 Yet I say to you that in this place there is One greater than the temple. 7 But if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice,’[a] you would not have condemned the guiltless. 8 For the Son of Man is Lord even[b] of the Sabbath.”

Matthew 12:1-8

only G-d is lord of the Sabbath only he decides what is lawful
[also see Joshua 6 for G-d makes an exception of carrying burdens=Jeremiah 17:19-27]

and

in Mark 2:3-11 Jesus forgives the sin of a man something only G-d can do

Kingship:

7 “ Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd,
Against the Man who is My Companion (Heb.=associate),”
Says the LORD of hosts.

“ Strike the Shepherd,
And the sheep will be scattered;
Then I will turn My hand against the little ones.
8 And it shall come to pass in all the land,”
Says the LORD,

“ That two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die,
But one-third shall be left in it:
9 I will bring the one-third through the fire,
Will refine them as silver is refined,
And test them as gold is tested.
They will call on My name,
And I will answer them.
I will say, ‘This is My people’;
And each one will say, ‘The LORD is my God.’”

The messiah king was to be G-d's equal and other.

Answer 7

I believe that no matter what you find out it is all a story interpreted and written by men. Therefore, there can be no clear answer to your question.

Throughout history men have rewritten the who, what, when, where, why and how in order to serve their own purposes. It happens as we speak all over the world and it happened 1500 years ago when the four books of the bible were accepted out of many gospels as the "truth". It contradicts other religions that are considered to be the "truth" and it contradicts itself numerous times.

Jesus can never be truly known by anyone based on those failings of mankind. We have, no doubt, totally corrupted the true feeling and teachings of a man that lived 2000 years ago and may not have even existed. Heck, I don't even trust the evening news...and that's what happened in the last 24 hours.

Therefore, it is open to your own interpretation to believe what you want.

Answer 8

Who else but man could make those statements? Jesus and God are the same. You need to read about the Trinity. God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Also, when Jesus was born, an angel of the Lord announced that a Savior had been born, who was Christ the Lord.

Answer 9

FAQ: Are "Swedenborgians" Christians?

In the Swedenborgian denomination of the Christian Church, Jesus Christ is the "I AM" or God Himself in a visible body.

"For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily." -- Colossians 2:9

"Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" -- John 14:9

"Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you Before Abraham was, I AM." -- John 8:58

"God is one." (Galatians 3:20)

In the Swedenborgian denomination of the Christian Church, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is the Good, the Truth and what comes forth from the marriage of Good and Truth, or the two elements of God and the resultant action, just like the soul, the body and the works in a single person. Emanuel Swedenborg did not start a church, produce a new Bible, or claim to have written scripture. Instead, Swedenborg claims to have been allowed to write down angelic wisdom in a new and more accurate doctrine for the Christian Church. This doctrine or "Universal Theology of the New Church" seeks to prove through reason and good interpretation that Jesus Christ is indeed the King of kings and Lord of lords who alone can enlighten individuals as to Jesus Christ's (or God's) sovereignty and divinity. Only the Lord Jesus Christ can instruct mankind from the Bible (for the books that are scripture in the Bible see above) and the Lord appears to mankind in truth from the Word.

"Swedenborgians," as all Christians do, acknowledge that the Word [or Bible] is holy and that the Lord possesses the divine, and these two are essentials of the Christian church. See Divine Providence n. 256 [3].

Answer 10

There's a reason Jesus was accused of blasphemy at his "trial" before the pharisees:

Matt 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God. 64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. 65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.

and it's not because he was claiming to be merely mortal.

UPDATE: YOu think the pharisees accused him of blasphemy for claiming to be a man? How is that blasphemy? You can make up what ever meaning you want about his words 2000 years later, but they were there and they KNEW what he was saying.

Answer 11

Jesus also said that if you have seen him you have seen the Father, lending credence to the Trinity doctrine. Also, in the New Testament He says that no man commeth to the Father expect through him. Jesus is God the Son and worthy or praise and honor.