Muslims, why when I show you 6:115 you tell me that the word of God does not refer to his written word?

Question

and when I ask if the Gospel and Torah were ever God's written word you say they were but they were changed?

6:115. The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfilment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all.

Was this scripture God's word or was it not? does it depend on how I ask the question?

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Ismail you are saying the Bible was Allah's word but it is not now because it has been changed?
Allah says his word can not be changed!
Which is true?

Muhammad was the Bible also the word of God? If God's word can not be changed as the Qu'ran clearly states, then why is Allah disagreeing with himself?

Aishaw the Qu'ran in English has many translations also. The bbile was not origianly written in English either..So if youare saying the bible is corrupt because it has more than one English translation you must also agree the Qu'ran is corrupt...All translations of God's true word The Bible agree that Jesus died on the cross and was resurrected. why if Allah is God and his word can not be changed does he not agree with his word?

Muhammad I agree that the Qu'ran does not imply that the Bible is corrupt in any way but that people were mislead by the teachings...Now why does the Bible say Christ was crucified and the Qu'ran says he was not?

Aishaw any version will tell you the truth that Christ atoned for your sin. The book of Isaiah is still intact from 250 BC that's 850 years are better before the Qu'ran and 250 years before Christ...this book of Isaiah does tell us the Messiah will atone for sin..chrsit agreed wiht this prophesy and said he would fufill it...Muhammad (The Qu'ran) says the Messiah would not atone for sin. Why did Christ agree with the prophet Isaiah and Muahmmad did not?

Aishaw, It is your belief that the Old Testament and New Testament are not in agreement this can only be because the truth has not been as of yet revealed to you. They are completely in agreement. the first scripture God gave to Moses shows God's plan of salvation
it reads the same as the Gospel showing us that we could not remain righteous under the law and that we need God.It shows us that God had a plan of salvation the tree of life eat of it and they would not die. The entire Old testament does fortell of the coming atonement and the coming Messiah.

Aishaw you are believing a lie the God that spoke to Moses has kept his word he is the creator of everything that exist eh does not allow man to make a liar out of him and his word is true. the word of God is not lost and is intact the Gospels that are fake or not in the Bible are not there by God's design. Why do Muslims limit God? his word has to be good or we have no vialble word and he could not righteously judge anyone. God is rihgteous he does not punish someone for believing a lie that eh created he does not allow sinful man to make a liar out of him. His truth has always been with us and still is he did not wait for Muhamamd to share his truth it has always been here. We are drifiting form the opriginal question which Allah says his word can not be changed even Muhamamd knew this had to be true..A God that man could corrupt is a useless God.

Aisha pleas share this disagreement between the God before Jesus and the God after Jesus with me. I do also study the Old and New Testaments and understand them to be in total agreement.

Perry the Old Testament and New Testament are in agreement. These books and the Qu'ran are not in agreement. Is 6:115 in error as you seem to think some man can change God's word?

سيف الله بطل ‎جهاد‎ 6:115 and the entirety fo chapter 6 is refering to the book as in the people of the book but none the less says the word of God can't be changed..Are you saying the Gospel and Torah were never the word of God or were they not changed? If god's wrod cna be changed but not the Qu'ran why is that? many Muslims say because God promised to keep his word in the Qu'ran... If God's written word can not be trusted can a promise within his written word be trusted?

Salahuldin Asadullah the Torah and Gospel are not God's written word? Allah sure says they are!

Actually if you study you will find God spoke directly to Moses yet Muhammad says he did not speak directly to Allah but to an angel.

Sorry Muhammad I was ambiguous what I was saying is thet Moses spoke directly to God but that Muhammad spoke to an angel.

Muhammad, Jesus did not change the law he fufilled it. Why did Jesus have to die? The word of God before Muhammad demonstrates that God is righteous and could not be joined with sin. If man was sinful then he was eternaly seperated from God. god did not nor would he simply overlook sin..It would make God unrighteous...the wages of sin is death we see this in the true story of Adam where God did not simply forgive Adam but told him he would surley die. sin equals death and we all do die...God came to the world as a man to overcome temptation and remain perfect and pay the penalty do death for us to bring us to God's rihgteousness not to join us in our sin.

Answer 1

I think Muslims can't make up their mind. If they refer to the written word before Muhammed they have to find an explanation as to why it's not in agreement with the Quran.

Islam claims that:

There is a clear continuity between the Bible and the Quran and the religious practices of those worshippers described in each book.
Yet, Muslims also claim that the majority of the proof for this continuity has been destroyed or corrupted, or they themselves are often found denying or trying to destroy any evidence to the contrary.
Muslims are quick to declare that the Bible is corrupt yet they are simply unable to explain when, where or how this occurred.

"Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed therein. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are evil-livers." Surah 5:47

So should we consult our Scriptures or not? If they are corrupt then why would Allah ask us to consult corrupted Scriptures?

"And God will teach him (Jesus) the Scripture and wisdom, and the Torah and the Gospel" Surah 3:48

So if Jesus was taught the Torah by God, it could not have been corrupt prior to Jesus' day. For if it had, then certainly Jesus would have attempted to correct the corrupt Torahs that existed in his day. Surely Jesus would have taught the correct Torah to His disciples.

The Torah that we posses today is the exact same as the Torahs of Jesus' day.

But because this Torah does not correlate to the teachings of the Quran Muslims are forced to claim that the Torah is corrupt.

God can and has promised to protect His Word. He is trustworthy and so would not act in a dishonest way and change His mind by replacing the way of salvation with another which was totally different.
The evidence of history is that the present day Bible is that which was revealed to the Prophets and Christ's Apostles. The many ancient manuscripts support this claim fully. No teaching or doctrine has altered since it was revealed by God.
There was neither opportunity for an agreement to change the Bible nor was there any reason why "People of the Book" should change the Book that they loved, revered and were willing to die for.
No different "original" has ever been produced by those making the charge of corruption in the text of the Bible.

Answer 2

Sure no one can chaneg what God has revealed, but no one has protected His words in written form. You as a Christian know how many versions of the bible there are. Some have more chapters, some have less, some translate words VERY differently....

No two versions of the bible are the same. On the contrary, the Quran in Arabic is no different than any other Arabic Quran, because it is preserved. Not one accent, letter or anything has changed since its revelation. Sure, in translations you will find small variations in interpretations, but we DO NOT consider any translation the actual Quran. They are just the translated meanings of it. Thats what the difference is in how we have preserved the word of God figuratively and literally, while the other major scriptures have not.

EDIT -- I mean that there are different greek and aramaic versions, there is no 'original' bible preserved. There is no reference point to the first compiled bible to say, OK - this IS the right version. As a Muslim I know the entire Quran was revealed and written during the lifetime of the Prophet. I also know that he recited the quran every year (twice in his last year) to Angel Gabriel to be sure no corruption happened. The first time it was compiled in a book form was a decade or two later. this Quran is in a museum in turkey. You could take any Arabic Quran and go letter by letter with that Quran in turkey and nothing would be different. in fact, they have a copy of that quran for the public and they allow you to do that. There are too many versions of the bible. A good example is I remember I went to an open forum debate and was talking to some christian women. They asked that I read the bible again (even though I was pretty 'Christian' before) and they would read the Quran. I said, ok, which one should I read and they continued to argue for over 20 mins which one to read. they never did agree on which one....

EDIT 2 -- Sure, thats great, but you are still assuming that the Bible and Old testament are in tact from the time they were created. The Bible and Old testament do not agree with eachother on many subjects, yet you include them in the same book! Why are they different? Powerful people stuck their fingers into it and 'interpreted' what had happened in different ways over the centuries. Read the history books, its documented time and time again. Then read the history books about the Quran even from non-muslim sources and you will find what I told you.
Regardless of what ANY bible or torah says, I would much rather trust a book I know has not been taineted with since it was revealed to a Prophet than one that says something completely different and was compiled and written years and years after the time of Jesus. Nothing in the bible today was written during the time of Jesus -- it is all interpretation according to Matthew Mark Luke and John about what happened. look at your bible -- it says The Gospel "According To" Mark. Even the gospels that 'didnt make it' into the bible were written after his lifetime (gospel of mary magdeline, nag hammadi, etc).

[Side note -- it's funny how since they have been lost for so many years say something completely different than the bible today, but they all say the same message as the other lost scriptures.]

EDIT 3 - I have studied them to the best of my abilities (and continue to do so) and sat with many preists, preachers, etc and no, the Old testament and new testament are not in 100% argeement.

Answer 3

The Qu'ran has not been changed because it was sent with an unwritten numbers secret that protects it from human interference. Only those who pass all tests may know the secret of the numbers. This is why some phrases or words seem to repeat within the Suras...because each Sura has a secret number associated with it that represents all of the letters of the Sura. If one letter is changed the numbers will not add up and the passage in question is exposed as a forgery.

Rewriting God's word has been a continuous pursuit of Satan who was given dominion over the earth at the beginning of the story. Anyone who reads the "New Testament" after the chapter "Acts" can plainly see that Satan with his Roman-Pagan legion hijacked the Gospels and turned them into their own Pagan-Christianity...that's why they don't jive with the Torah or the Qu'ran.

The Law (Torah) was in the process of being "changed" when Jesus showed up the first time. That is why he was at war with the "scribes and Pharisees" they were "translating" the Torah into Latin for their Roman masters...Paganizing Judaism (Jewish Islam).

Answer 4

My donkey notes: What could be better than burning the Holy Scriptures? Denying their validity.

Any false religion will do this, for example, Muslims often deny Muhammad is even talking about the writings of Moses, but a book in heaven.

Mormons tell you that the Bible was changed, thus they need a new and more accurate one.

Catholics tell you that you can´t trust the Bible and need the Church to interpret it.

But Jesus sets the record straight: ¨What readest thou?¨, What sayest the Scriptures. ¨We must not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God; etc.

So, I ask anyone, show me a Bible translation that you say is so perverted, Display the texts that say Jesus is not Lord, Not our Savior, Did not die for humanity as a ransom for sins? No, every manuscript, including the Dead Sea Scrolls proves Jesus is exactly who He says He is.

And because He knows men would pervert the plain teachings of the Bible, God identifies antichrist, and much more in a hidden Bible code. Select http://abiblecode.tripod.com

Thus said my Donkey, Blessings, Balaam

Answer 5

The Word or 'Kalima' when related to God is used here as 'Promise'. That is His message and promise remains same eternal and it is never changed. We believe the Injeel or the Gospel was revealed to Jesus Christ in truth from God Almighty. But current Bible is human, true scholars of Christianity accepts this truth, though some, out of zeal which is not according to knowledge, have denied this. Those books have passed through the minds of men, are written in the language of men, were penned by the hands of men, and bear in their style the characteristics of men..

The Bible went on revision after revision. The word of God will be perfect and free from any errors. Honestly asking, Is today's Bible free from errors- Why is a revised version of God's words necessary...Where are the original texts... http://www.jamaat.net/bible/bible1-3.htm...
http://www.jamaat.net/bible/awakearticle...

Answer 6

6:115. The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfilment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all.


Surely We have revealed the Reminder and We will most surely
be its guardian (15:9)

As this verse is telling us, Quran is protected by Allah himself.

This verse implies that Quran is not altered by the prophet, and it is
not altered by the end of the prophet's life.

The book of Allah is
protected by Allah himself and along with the history. Not even one
single human being can add any letter, reduce any letter, or change any
letter of it. This does include all types of human beings. It is , in
reality, out of the power of human being to do that. As the result of
such understanding, says:

Even a Budist can not change Quran and publish it and widely.
Even a zionist can not do that.
A Shia can not do that.
The prophet, himself, can not do that.
Ali and his sons can not do that,
None among SUNNI people can do that.
Not a pagan can do that.

Simply:

No single human being can alter Quran in any way.

Edit:

The likeness of those who are entrusted with the Law of Moses,
yet apply it not, is as the likeness of the donkey carrying books*
Wretched is the likeness of folk who deny the revelations of
God* And Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk (Quran 62:5)


It is not about (((changed))) its about not following the command as it should, but most muslims and christian and jews don't understand.


Edit: Brother Dj who told you Moses did not speak to God, WE call him kalim Allah, Meaning the one who spoke to God.

Edit: Yes he did but did Moses see heaven, Mohammad did. Every peophet has something special that does not mean they are better, its a team game not competition

Answer 7

The Gospel and Torah were written by groups of men, who wrote their own version of events during their respective time periods. The Qur'an was given directly to Muhammad (SAW), who then recited it to his followers, who wrote it down. He then had them recite it back to him to ensure accuracy.

The Gospel and Torah were therefore NOT the direct Word of God, but rather Man's interpretation of what it was.

Answer 8

6:113-115 seems to talking about the Qur'an-which has not changed.

Check it http://www.al-bukhari.org/Chapter8.html

The Qur'an is the last revelation the world will get.

Answer 9

as far as i know that 6:115 is true for muslims, too but i also know that there are many versions of the bible. why would God "write" some other editions of it? doesn't make sense.

Answer 10

MUHAMMED got my answer I say ditto