what are the strong points or shortcomings of wing chun, aikido, kajukenbo, kempo, tang soo do, jeet kun do?

Question

i take TKD now and want to learn something more practical. these are all i could find in my area. I'm not looking to drop tae kwon do, just to cross train. which ones would be good combos?

I'm looking for something that will help me in a real fight and won't put me on my back like BJJ.. i dont want just ground-fighting but standing grapples, takedowns and effecient strong strikes.

so if i could get a description of each of these or just the ones you know about that would help me out a great deal.

no offense, but i only want to hear from people who know they are talking about.

Answer 1

To anyone that practices these styles (Because I don't practice any of these [Yet. ^_^ My major art is Tae Kwon Do like the person who started this question]): If the way I've said this offends you, I'm deeply sorry. I meant nothing by it. My computer is too crappy for me to hit wikipedia at the moment, but I might revise this tomorrow moring after I reformat my hard drive.
I don't think any style is ultimately better than another. They all have a different balance in the way that they are, and in the practitioner.
I have some entry-level knowledege of some of these styles, but I haven't practiced any of them.

Wing Chun-
Pros- Very good close combat fighting, certain styles teach "Counter-Grappling." One of the many styles that inspired the Martial Arts concept of "Jeet Kune Do."
Cons- No actual grappling in many styles, no advocation of high kicks (Which would mean the high kick heaven that is Tae Kwon Do might have to go down the drain:P)
Aikido
Pros- Teaches you how to use your opponents weight against them (Por Ejemple: They punch, and you throw them like a sack of potatoes :P), teaches great self-defense against striking.
Cons- I'm sure striking is taught in some styles, but the gist of the art is throwing. It's your choice whether or not that's a pro or a con, because throwing might work better for you than striking.
Kajukenbo
Pros- Hybrid Martial art combining elements from boxing, kung fu, kenpo, and other styles. Large number of practical techniques.
Cons- It covers about six styles, which is great, but since simplicity and practicality have a link in some people: It might not be simple. I don't know the style, but I also don't know you, however. I can't honestly say that and be completely correct, but that's the only con I can think of (If it actually exists). I'm sure someone in this style will expose the truth about it. I've heard some good things about Kajukenbo.
Kempo-
Pros- Decent striking training and grappling as well. I've only observed a few techniques from the style, and they seemed ok in my book.
Tang Soo Do-
Pros- Has some base level similarites to Tae Kwon Do, which can make your journey across this style easier. Most styles are 50/50 in punching/kicking.
Jeet Kune Do- It isn't a Martial Art: It's more a concept that sometimes goes with a few techniques of a Martial Art System (Not necessarily a style: Bruce Lee didn't want a new style).
Pros- Teaches you to analyze your opponent, and expose their flaws. Very practical and open-ended way of thinking. If you join a school: Certain Jeet Kune Do schools advocate you going to various other Martial Arts schools so that you can interpret for yourself what is practical for you and what is not. I haven't read the Tao of Jeet Kune Do yet, but I think the Tao may also state that you should experiment with styles as well. That way you can learn to form the knowledege of those techniques into your own thing.
An artist doesn't go to school to learn how to paint a masterpiece. They forget, and they just guide their hand in a form that seems right: That's how they make masterpieces.
Jeet Kune Do is formless, but it has form. That means certain things aren't advocated, but nothing is written in stone. Jeet Kune Do advocates you using what works for you. One thing that is say in the style is:
"No High Kicks"
The thing is: That is very open-ended. If there is an opening for it, Jeet Kune Do is a style that also advocates you striking if you have an opening to do something like that. You are to attack in whatever way you can.
Cons- If you think Jeet Kune Do not being a complete style is a flaw: There you go. I don't, but once again: I don't know you.

Answer 2

Alright, I'll give this a try. Just to let you know up front though I am a kajukenbo practitioner, so my views may be slightly skewed. I will try to remain as objective as possible however.
Wing chun - I believe it has excellent hand techniques and good stances. It doesn't have much in the way of holds though, and any grappling is very limited.
Aikido - Its a decent art, but doesn't work as well as the demonstrations make it seem.
Kajukenbo - Because I love kajukenbo, I will try to give only a warning, we believe in training with force, we make hard contact. We have a belief, if you don't know how to take pain, you shouldn't deal it. Kajukenbo was created for streetfighting.
I suggest doing a search about it, especially John Bishop's kajukenbo info page.
Kempo - It depends on which style of course, but here is a brief overview. Kempo is a very effective art, well balanced between punching and kicking. It uses rapid hand strikes.
Tang soo do - In effect it is the predecessor of tae kwon do. Basically it is more similar to japanese karate then the modern forms of tae kwon do. It uses more hand techniques.
Its down side is very little grappling defense.
Jeet kune do - This is an excellent art if you can find a decent school. The problem with jkd is that many people who claim to teach it, are actually teaching another art totally, and are just throwing in some of Bruce Lee's concepts that they got out of one of his books.

I will give you some advice, take it or leave it, its up to you.
Do research on the styles you find interesting. Go to the schools and meet the instructors. Ask questions. Whatever style you choose, make sure it is your decision and that you are not being pressured into it. (some instructors really should be car salesmen) If you have any further questions, you may e-mail me at : [e-mail] , I wish you luck on your journey to martial enlightenment !!! (sorry, that sounded a bit like a fortune cookie)

Answer 3

strong points shortcomings wing chun aikido kajukenbo kempo tang soo jeet kun

Answer 4

Wing Chun: Great punching, amazing hand work, blazing fast speed. Few (if any) kicking techniques. Bruce Lee studied this style, and supplimented it with Korean Kicking techniques. (I"m not sure if it was Taekwondo or Tang Soo do kicking) The dummy work in Wing Chun is worth the price of admission.

Aikido: Soft style, stand up grappling. Excellent at redirecting attacks, so the persons momentum takes them to the ground. (or even sometimes into a lock) I only know of one kicking technique in this style as well. (toes curled down, to vital point) Would suppliment what you know extremely well in my opinion.

Kajukenbo: I don't know.
Kempo: Modern Kempo (George Dillman created off his studies in Isshinryu under Master Smith, and further studies in RyuKyu Islands) is based heavily on pressure point fighting. Disagree with him or not, Dillman puts out some excellent martial artists.

Tang Soo Do: This would be similar to your Taekwondo studies, as I think it's also based off Shotokan Karate, mixed with Korean kicking techniques. (taekwon) Just emphasizing different things.

Jeet Kun Do: This is the style 20 something Bruce Lee founded, and his suggested improvements to Wing Chun, but also his ideas on how to fight. Even if you don't study this style officially, you can study the spirit of this style through Bruce's book and applying his ideas to your own martial art.

Answer 5

first things first, you can research or read about the different arts from books or online. i'm a longfist practitioner, and from my studies, this is what i found. note that these are from my studies and observations and may always work in a real fight (because of factors like you, the practitioner, your experience, your opponent, the place you are fighting in, etc).

in wing chun, practitioners do not (or mostly not) do sparring sessions because they don't think that it is necessary. if you have some fighting experience and have a feel of it, you can take them down. make sure that you don't fight a pro. even if you are able to take them down, you'll sustain some serious damage.

aikido is pretty hard to describe because there are lots of theories that i encountered about the art. basically, it is about being in peace with yourself, and being one with the flow( don't fight the force from your opponent, don't absorb it, return it by redirecting it back to him). it will be hard to beat a pro, but you can beat down beginners and those at mid-level. note that these practitioners will avoid a fight and will not just necessarily engage you in a fight or wait for you to strike them first. if they have other discipline other than this art, stay away from them. i can put some more stuff in here but it will be long.

jeet kune do is like aikido in a sense that for you to be good at fighting, you need to have a high level. these people are pretty fast. only flaw that i found about them so far is to let them wear out, but chances are by that time, you are on the ground. if i get in a fight with them, i'd probably take my chance going toe to toe with them or wrestle them to the ground and do some chin na techniques on the.


those are just some of the stuff that i learned.

Answer 6

Hi , so you want to defend yourself properly from a bar fight,street fight or planned attack ( mugging ) or defend yourself from multiple
attacks 2-3 lads coming at you at the same time . the simplest and most effective defense is first and foremost your eyes, ears and the brain , these three things are your own natural weapons if trained right the eyes alert scanning the area surrounding you the ears listening for fights .loud gobby thugs etc and the brain takin in all the info and tellin you wots going on, a good street wise martial artist would be very aware of the area he is in the people around him is he being watched followed any thing can happening if u look at trained soldiers they are scanning and listening they break down there surroundings so they know that they are safe they av coverd every angle an attack could come from this should be you .if you are alert and are aware of every thing around you it will be easier to see the druggies the gangs ,drunks and so on and then you can say to yourself these groups are a threat to me is it worth drinkin here go to a different bar its not worth the hassle.i have so much i can say about seeing danger before it sees you i could go on for ages just remember assessing the area you are in can make a big differnce in the the way you live your life ok getting to the point of combat/defence WING CHUN is the only martial art you will ever need .forget about boxing karate kempo wot ever style it maybe .and ignore the thick idiot who sent you a reply saying wing chun practioners dont sparr, we sparr accordanly free flow has we call it which defend and attack to random attacks is practiced just think why dont wing chun club appear on cage fight or international sports orgs avents and cometions 1 reasonis it is to fast and attacks to desrtuctive and will kill and no insurance company will take that risk. also they same person you said wing chun dont sparr said we are bad on stepping movein and kickin wrong he is so so so WRONG DONT TAKE ADVICE FROM A IDIOT THAT HAS DONE THIS AND THAT AND A BIT OF THIS AND SO ON.. wing chun has the best and most effective kicks sweeps stamps and is very very good for getting in to very close quarters from say 6 ft upwards we have differnt kicks and have training drill (chi gerk) trappin legs kickin the supprtin leg breakin knee caps damageing muscels nerves and tendons.to cut it short wing chun works on mordeday fightin has is it did years ago in reality street fightin is **** all it is punches and kicks and so on they have not invented a new punch or style it is just aggressive fighting for no reason it has no history disapline or respect in wing chun we train attack down centerline its the fastest line for punches to travel the geometry of the body is useing the body to its best abilaties .instead of me writing this get looking at examples see for you self the best lineage is the yip man linage bruce lee teacher

Answer 7

Thankyou everyone for the answers

Answer 8

the teacher.

Answer 9

Well I will weigh in....

First off, you have to realize in a real fight, groundfighting and grappling are pretty much going to happen. Unless you have an extremely high skill level chances are the fight is going to end on the ground. Ignoring that level of combat isn't smart.

Despite what some may believe BJJ isn't really wanting to work from it's back, it is a defensive position so that you can sweep a person and take dominant position. You need every aspect of fighting to be complete, which means no matter what realm a fight goes to, you are prepared.

Wing Chun/Wing Tsun:

Strong Points: Conditioning and development of fast strikes and fast hands. A good adherence to discipline and physical training. They teach some decent techniques in princple, adhere to a combination type of attitude (no one punch, then wait, they follow up punches and strikes with more punches and strikes)

Cons: Very few schools actually spar, when they do it is Wing Chun vs. Wing Chun. So both maintain the same sort of stances, that against an average person would be bad idea. Chain punches (their main weapon of choice) are fairly poor and ineffective, and negated by a normal boxing peek a boo guard. They train to attack the center line, without sparring against a moving person, and centerline attacks are not that effective. Mostly it's lack of realistic sparring is it's downfall. Additionally they have no real defense or answer against grappling. They never work from the ground, or how to get off of the ground, or how to get to the ground aside for a few fundamental and ineffective sweeps. Little to no takedown ability or defense from takedowns

Aikido:
Strengths: Joint locks, it's adherence to getting an opponent to the ground with pain compliance. Fundamental throwing techniques. Impressive looking techniques, some limited training with weapons. Adherence to discipline and harmony in working with your partners, using leverage and motion against it's opponents. It's principles give the Aikidoka some take down defense, and offense. However no realistic sparring makes it's defenses against takedowns limited, as they never really have someone truly try to take them down.

Cons: Aside from a few schools, little to no resistance training, a firm reliance on cooperation from your partner to execute a technique properly. Complex multistepped movements to deal with an opponent, small joint manipulations not based in a realistic context. (Many done off of wrist graps, lapel grabs, when in reality no one is grabbing your wrist or your lapel), takes years to be truly profecient at it, even then you have never fought and have limited ability against strikers, or grapplers. Once on the ground in a bad position, there is no answer or counter for it. You put an Aikidoka on his back, with you firmly in control he has no way to escape, they never work from that realm (though the same can be said about many arts)

Kajukenbo:
Strengths: A hybrid system that attempts to combine many things into one. So you get a wide array of techniques. Sparring philosophies different from school to school. Little to no real ground work, or escapes from ground work.

Cons: Most MMA people focus on each art individually, because two or three throws from Judo may not actually be throws meant for your body style, or throws you can do effectively. By borrowing what they feel is the best from certain arts, they are missing out on very fundamental things. Not to mention someone may be able to throw a different throw much more effectively than another throw. Only by study the art as a whole will you get the full gammet of throws and the ability to find which ones work for you, the same with any technique. Most hybrid arts fall under this trap, because they are only taking a few techniques from each area, where those techniques may not suit every situation, every body type, etc. Again, lack of ground sparring, lack of take down defense, and lack of ability on how to remove yourself from a bad situation on the ground. Lack of realistic sparring.

Kempo:
Strengths: Good fundamental striking, good fundamental kicks. Solid fundamental art. Some understanding of joint locks and pain compliance holds.

Cons: Depending on school, many do not allow sparring at early levels, preferring to work on forms over sparring. Lack of realistic take down defense, lack of realistic take downs, inability to remove themselves from a bad position once they are on the ground. Aside from a strong sparring school, many do not spar enough to truly be effective. But it does have solid fundamentals.

Tang Soo Do:
Strength: Like Kempo, very solid fundamentally. Good strikes, good kicks, some limited jointlock work, and very limited takedowns. Preference to finish a fight on the feet. Many schools do some solid sparring, making them much more effective than arts that do not sparring.

Cons:
Limited in it's approach, like Karate not a whole lot of combinations, preference to end fights attempting to utilize few strikes instead of multiple combinations. No take downdefense, limited take down ability, no techniques for once the fight reaches the ground, or ability to get out of a bad situation on the ground.

Jeet Kun Do:
Strengths: It's strength is as a philosophy, it is essentially MMA at it's core. It's idealogy was to train in many different arts, combine them into your own fighting principle in what works for you at the time. Essentially very effective when a school embraces that, instead of just calling themselves JKD. (Keep in mind, Bruce Lee wanted all JKD schools disbanded upon his death).

Cons:
Too many schools claiming to be JKD, when they are not really. They have very few ties to any of the original JKD guys, and they never spar. Instead an instructor shows you what he feels is JKD (a hybrid system of his or someone elses design) that was suited for someone else. Real JKD isn't a school that teaches specifically "JKD" It is a school that teaches many Martial Arts, with a wide background and lets you blend them and practice them under heavy sparring situations to develop your own JKD style, that will change as you grow, get more experienced and get better at certain things.

Check out what true JKD type philosophy of aliveness truly is:

http://www.straightblastgym.com/aliveness101.html

It's a long read but worth it.

You want something that will help you in a real fight?

Look for some place that does alive training, that spars with resistance, the throws out what doesn't work and use what does.

Groundfighting in a real fight is almost always an inevitability. There are so many things happening from just you tripping, to your opponent hitting you from behind and dropping you to the ground, to the guy just coming in on your before you have a chance to react. Grappling and groundfighting are realms in which you should be comfortable if it goes there, or at least comfortable that you can get out of any ground fighting situation and get back up on your feet to fight where you feel more comfortable.

A good school should teach you escapes from mount type positions, or how to defend yourself if you do find yourself on your back. How to keep a guy who has a hold of you from being able to take you down, etc.

Honestly, with already taking TKD, most of these places aside from a really good JKD place will help you in reality.

You should round out with either a more intense striking art like Muay Thai, or a more grappling intensive art like wrestling or Judo. If striking be your poison, perhaps something that focuses on hands such as boxing.

But none of the arts mentioned above will help you much with standing grapples. (Aikido will in some sense, but without sparring it is unrealistic) (A solid JKD place such as the Straightblast Gym guys will)

Wing Chun, Kajukenbo, kempo and tang soo do, won't help you a whole lot once the feet reaches grappling or clinch levels. While Kajukenbo has some techniques for it, they never do grappling sparring, so they can't effectively use those techniques against a resisting opponent.

Well sorry for the Novel, hope that is of some help.

Best of luck to you, cross training is an awesome thing to do to help round yourself out. Just don't ignore the ground aspect, because eventually most fights end up there. Even if doesn't get to the ground the ability to fight there is a huge
advantage.

Another long read but good one if you get a chance:
http://www.bullshido.net/modules.php?name=FAQ&myfaq=yes&id_cat=6

Best of luck in whichever one it is you pursue.

My advice check out those places and see what fits best with your philosophy and which place you feel you will get the most out of it, regardless of other people's opinion here.

You may find that the kempo place does teach grappling stuff, because the instructor holds a belt from a grappling art and likes to incorporate it, the same with any of those arts. You could find an Aikido place that spars and spars hard. There is no telling, we are all just speaking in generalities each school can be very different.

Take care man, enjoy yourself and good luck.