Would you help a soldier desert from a war deemed by him and/or others as immoral, illegal or contrived?

Question

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070613/ap_on_re_us/military_protest_hearing

I think this article highlights what is the true threat to freedom...political repression. Our freedoms are defended everyday by people like him who stand up and say no to insanity. They are defended every day by defense attornies and judges(hopefully). Our soldiers (indeed most soldiers in history)have historically been used to enforce our overseas markets and resources security and their retention/obtention. Thus military service can be seen as morally problematic on more than one level. Nuremburg highlighted that in a civilized world the individual can and should defy immoral or illegal orders or face consequences in a criminal court (if you are on losing side anyway). Therefore it seems incumbent on moral and rational people to help those seeking to act according to their conscience to do so. This question will be more important when the draft is reinstated. O Canada ....of thee I sing

The verb "to desert" to leave without permission or notice. you can verify this in any dictionary it is that book with all the words in it. you know what words are I assume?
NO one even addressed the draft issue or the issue of Nuremburg. It seems those people also would not report war crimes they witness just as 63% of our soldiers said they would not report what they saw. Yet we expected german officers to disobey the orders they took an oath to obey...I m not sure if this is faulty logic or hypocrisy or ignorance.
The soldier in the article removed his name and insignia thus exempting him from the rule.his discharge was pure political repression of free speech. Nuremburg established the relationship between individual acts and the orders of authority and oath taking...we ignore it at our peril.
Rose marie you need to lay off the meth or crack as your incoherent hatred was truly pathetic as compared to the barbaric hatred encountered here....The EU is bigger and richer than the US

We need them as a friend and they fear us for our irrational hatred as I see it here...WW3!!?!?!? are you some sort of christian theocrat bent on waging holy war on islam? The ad homminem attacks are completely expected as that seems to be the only tactic of debate available to Racist Ignorant Barbarians. Once again the Ugly American rears its head. Je parle francais and Ich spricht Deutsch. I live in Europe part-time(for now)and no longer tell people I am american. I cringe when I see you and I avoid where you go. Europe fears and pities us and soon they will realize they do not need us at all.
Any moral rational person should encourage soldiers whether drafted or not to not obey immoral orders....not combat orders if you are that far in it is too late to desert...survival alone dictates that my misanthropic friend.
That was the lesson of Nuremberg WE imposed on the world and now we ignore it?
I will stick around here just to keep throwing monkey wrenches in your propaganda and lies

Thank you Mr. Freddy B. A breath of rational air. I agree in many ways with what you say. I wish I could have gone to Afghanistan with you. There have been just wars(not many) Iraq is a profit-motivated war just like vietnam as was the first Iraq conflict. It is also destroying our moral highground in A (I think we have been doing pretty good there despite Iraq) and elsewhere. I have a friend 44 in Iraq now who would have deserted (thus my question) but he feels he is there to keep the kids from getting chewed up. Now on third tour. I just hopes he lives to get his 20. We might have some good debates someday. I respect differences of opinion and do not make it personal as so many infants seem to enjoy doing...kinda like monkies with poop

I cant believe people actually believe there were WMD's in Iraq after first gulf incursion and the ones he had we sold to him!!! WOW the power of propaganda is amazing. Works really well on sheep. So do any of you besides the erudite Freddy and courageous Fishbone have anything resembling an original thought?
And political repression is PRECISELY what this action is supposedly about....you know that freedom and democracy thing is not just a talking point....oh wait sorry it is just a talking point...my bad

Dale....Hussein had "something" to do with 9/11? I worked there by the way. That is your standard for attacking a sovereign nation?

Overall I would say "America, Love it or Leave it"
has made quite a comeback. Oh the hypocrisy contained in those few words....do all of you consider the Constitution "just a piece of paper"?

Answer 1

It is a constant in our military that you defend a democracy, you don't get to participate in one.....this usually said as a joke among soldiers...but unfortunately it is true. On the legal side the soldier signs a legally binding contract and swears an oath "To obey the officers appointed over me". I am a soldier I hate this war(and I have been to Iraq for a 15 month stay). I do not support the way it has been handled and I do not believe in the cause. I do however believe in my word and my integrity, so i will obey those officers over me President Bush included until I am either out of the military or when voices like mine are heard at the voting booth. If you have any doubts about why we are fighting please watch this...http://stage6.divx.com/Louder-Than-Words/video/1005782/Loose-Change

So to answer your question...no I would not help them I would let them know that they are not alone in their opinion, but they did volunteer and if they were to dessert they would be subject to legal action....don't reenlist....also speak their mind and let their voice be heard....FOR GOD'S SAKE VOTE!!!

Answer 2

I totally disagree, I support our troops...IN COMING HOME. It's time they stopped dying for monetary and face-saving purposes and came back, prefferably not in body bags. I have countless close friends in the military and all have said to me: "This was the biggest mistake I've ever made." One can support someone for BEING A SOLDIER, but not agree with what they do UPON ORDERS. I personally do not have the personality or will to be a soldier. I would shout right back at a Drill Sergeant and more than likely get discharged within the first week. My brave friends who have served overseas? More power to them. But they all have said that more and more people, while being stationed in Iraq or Afghanistan, are thinking that this war was a mistake. For two predominant reasons: 1.) you cannot attack an Idea! Terrorism is a non-personified IDEA! Declaring War on an Idea is just futile and idiotic. 2.) What happened to the WMDs?

Answer 3

After reading so many inane posts on various threads here, it was heart warming for me to read most of these. Yes, when you sign up for the military, you are giving your word you will be reliable. Don't forget there were times during WW2 and the Civil War when things looked bleak. Lucky for us the people stuck it out anyway. I have absolutely no respect for a coward that desserts and runs away. To bring up Nuremburg is assinine and not at all a valid comparision. This is what I most dislike about the Far Left (all on the "left" aren't Far Left). They are so dishonest. As for the draft being reinstated, I think you are being inflammatory. There is absolutely no plan for that and in fact the military has been far stronger without. I would bet there's a bunch of us that would happily pay for a ticket for you to go to Canada. One way, of course.


Kent in SD

Answer 4

If you are a member of the United States military you follow the lawful orders of the president and those appointed over you. The military does not have political objections; they follow the person America voted into office. Essentially that's what democracy is, the president is the representative of what the US wants and the goal of the military is to carry out the military will of the US.

You don't wear a uniform to any political rally because it makes it seem as if the military supports or objects the political view. That's the reason why you only hear of 'former' Generals speaking out against G dubya.

Soldiers don't get to pick and choose which wars they think are just. They signed up to fight America’s fights regardless of political or even immoral objections. It's up to the civilian sector to determine the morality of a war, it's up to the military to best carry out the will of the nation.
The individual in the story is still in the military as an inactive member, still bound by the UCMJ.

I have a friend whose been in the army 23 years; when he deployed he disagreed but he went because it was his duty, when he deployed to Somalia he disagreed but he stayed cause his country sent him there, when he went to Iraq the second time he disagreed but he stayed because that's what his country wants. There are no indivuals in war.

Running to Canada and abandoning your country is cowardice. Plain and simple. Patriotism isn't love it or leave it, it's love it or improve it.

God Bless and Good Luck

Answer 5

Fact is if you joined the US military then you gave up your freedom to choose Americas Wars. I would not help a soldier desert because he has feelings that the war is immoral or illegal. It is your duty when you join the militrary not to second quess your commanders. If there was even a chance that we would be fighting a illegal or immoral war then that should have been taken into consideration before you signed on the dotted line. I personally dont think either war were in right now is immoral or illegal. Fact is Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and that is beyond a shadow of a doubt. If you dont think he did aske the Iranians or the Kurds. If he was a threat to America or no is not for me or you to decide but that is up to congress who decided that we should go to war. If congress now thinks the intel was faulty dont you think that it should have been investigated before they voted. Im not gonna vote for something just because everyone else does or because so and so says this is a fact, but it is my responsability to get the facts before I cast my vote. If congress didnt get the facts straight it is congresses fault not intel whether they mislead or not. Anyway Iraq has sure turned into a mess.

Answer 6

That article was about how a marine wore his uniform to a protest...something he knows he's not allowed to do. There is absolutely no rule in the Code of Military Justice stating he cannot attend a protest at all. He's only required to wear civilian clothing. The article wasn't about refusing to go into a foreign country and commit immoral or illegal activities.

There is room within the military to act on your conscience while acting within the "rules". And the presence of a military force does not always mean "enforcing overseas markets" (whatever that means). Sometimes the presence of a military force means keeping the peace and protecting civilians from violence.

Your question is a bait-and-switch. Feel free to go to Canada. Have a great time. I hope you don't mind having to wait 9 months in order to get a doctor's appointment.

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God" Matthew 5:9.

Answer 7

I do not want to argue with you. I served in Afghanistan and saw the brutality and horrors that our enemy inflicted on their own people. I believe that this is a moral and just war. It is my right to believe this, just as it is your right to believe the way you do.
In answer to your question. Desertion is a crime that the deserter will carry that for the rest of their life. I would advise any soldier who truly feels that this is immoral to get out as soon as possible or to fight for contentious objector status. It would be better to stand up firmly for your beliefs.
Every soldier that is in chose to join the military.
This war has been going on for almost 6 years, no soldier can say that they didn't think they would have to go.
I recently retired from the Army. I can say that the military is not in a hurry to reinstate the draft. It would be difficult and dangerous to go from a military made up entirely of volunteers to one that includes unwilling conscripts.

Answer 8

I can tell that you would not defend this country by the way you talk. This country was attacked on 11 September, 2001 even though Iraq was not directly involved Saddam Hussein did have apart in it. If you would pay attention to other news than the drive by media or any other liberal news out let. I would turn the coward in and he should have the maximum penalty carried out as soon as possible.

Answer 9

Hey, America Junior, Never mind hanging Nazis, your sons or daughters, bred of the the coward that founded your nation, still hides in plain sight among all nations. You only exist because of our good grace. Canada could never stand on it's own without the U.S. And you know it. SO how about a some help here Canuckowards. And that does not mean you will get your Stanley Cup back anytime soon.

Answer 10

That story has near nothing to do with your question.

That Marine did not desert from war...

That Marine is not representative of the Majority of our military members.

The vast Majority of our troops in any Branch (but especially the Marine Corps)of the service are supportive of the president and the mission.

The draft is no where near being re-instated. That is just something cooked up to frighten people. Before the draft is re-instated they will call up inactive reservists of which none have been called.

O Canda....Don't worry America will protect thee...