How many Catholics don't believe ...?

Question

in the Big Bang?

Why not? Your church does! The Catholic Church, under Pope Pius XII proclaimed it consistent with the Christian Bible in 1951.

http://library.thinkquest.org/27930/bigbangtheory.htm

Good point about the church's "official" position. However, while the church may not hold an "official" position on the Big Bang, is it not true that it is an advocate for the idea that "creation ex nihilo" -- basically the idea that the Big Bang looks an awful lot like an act of God snapping His fingers and creating the universe?

Secondly, "Intelligent Design and the Young Earth Theory" are not "evidence" against the Big Bang as you subtly imply. In fact, Intelligent Design is simply just superimposing a Supreme Creator onto science. It doesn't rule out a Big Bang nor does it provide evidence for a Creator.


It is not correct to say that there is much evidence against evolution. What may be said is that there are still gaps in the theory. This is often used as a deal breaker for those who wish to dismiss the idea of Evolution all together. Conversely, far greater holes in Creation are readily dismissed by Creationists.

Continued....

I should also point out-- the fact that every planet does not rotate in the same direction is not evidence against the Big Bang. It is perceived evidence against traditional solar system formation theory. I'm not sure what is the prevailing theory to explain it but I know there are many reasons some bodies rotate counter to the rest of the system-- i.e. "... Uranus rotates nearly on its side relative to its orbit. Current speculation is that Uranus started off with a typical prograde orientation and was knocked on its side by a large impact early in its history..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotation

Finally, saying "...no one can still disprove the Church's original stance that the Earth is the Center of the Universe.." is pretty much a word game. The church's idea of what the universe was at that time must be taken into consideration.

Cont.....

The churches idea of the universe at the time was the Ptolemaic system model in which the Earth was a perfect sphere at the centers of a series of concentric spherical shells which contained all the planets ad stars they could see-- their idea of the entire universe. They saw this model as perfect therefore was necessarily the work of God. It was their assumption-- not a piece of scripture they were defending. They never would have suggested it in the first place had they a better understand of the real shape of the universe. In the end, there is no need for the Earth to be at the center of the universe nor is there any reason to believe it.

Once again, it all boils down to faith.

Thanks for your rational response. It's had for many to discuss this without yelling their opinion.

Allow me to clarify something. I didn't claim that Big Bang Theory works for or against "Creation Ex Nihilo". My only point was that in the minds of the church leaders, Big Bang Theory was acceptable because, like Creation Ex Nihilo, it indicated an abrupt beginning to the universe. So, though it may not be the church's "official" position, they don't have a problem with it. It's not my intention to compare the intricacies of the two concepts, but I'm compelled to point out that Big Bang Theory does NOT rest solely on Preexistent Matter-- almost the opposite. The theory holds that all matter (and time for that matter) erupted from an infinitely small point of infinitely dense energy-- a singularity. To a laymen, it looks very much like everything springing forth from nothing-- perhaps an act of God.

Intelligent Design and the Young Earth Theory do provide evidence for a Creator from a scientific standpoint. Claims that the order of the universe must demonstrate the work of a Creator are unequivocally NOT scientific. They are more emotional based claims. The best we can say is it "seems" like the universe was ordered by intelligence but this is not even close to being "evidence". Furthermore, much of the order can be explained my natural causes. Yes the Big Bang randomly spit everything out, but local gravitational forces within dense regions ordered the pieces. Random particles of matter in space will naturally collapse into a sphere if caught in a mutual gravitational field.

Dismissing the entire theory of evolution because pieces are missing is nonsense. Pretend I show you a incomplete jigsaw puzzle of the Statue of Liberty that I've been building since the 70's. It's a 1000 piece puzzle but 200 pieces are missing. Every year or so I find another piece and put it in place. All the pieces that are there fit together very well and though you can't make out the entire image, it's pretty evident what it is. Are you going to tell me that it's not really a puzzle we're looking at because so many pieces are missing? I'm just fooling myself?

The fact that we haven't found every conceivable fossilized link is miniscule compared to the overwhelming genetic and other evidence we do have. Fossils are really an increasingly small part of the puzzle. Conversely, can you show me one piece of direct evidence that God created anything?

Isn't it really that hard to believe we ultimately evolved from single cells? Really? YOU did-- ask your mother-- she was there during the whole thing.

Hitler's belief is a red herring. Because he advocated it makes it wrong? Care to discuss the Spanish Inquisition? Care to discuss the countless times in history when the Bible was misused to justify evil? Do these things in anyway affect the truth of the Bible?

Natural Selection occurs in nature. It is not in dispute-- even by most intelligent Creationists. It is witnessed everyday in every environment down to the test tube. It's the reason bacteria becomes resist to penicillin. If someone decides to use this fact to justify some evil, it doesn't change the fact it exists.

FYI-- Galileo never proved that the Earth was not the center of the universe-- he hypothesized it based on observable data, i.e. The moons of Jupiter. In fact, he never could explain why the stars didn't seem to move relative to our rotation around the Sun.

Correction: "Intelligent Design and the Young Earth Theory do provide evidence for a Creator from a scientific standpoint." Should read : "Intelligent Design and the Young Earth Theory do NOT provide evidence for a Creator from a scientific standpoint.

Answer 1

Our Church clearly states that we see no conflict but we honestly do not know. To me it is unimportant how but why.He created us and that is all I care about.

Answer 2

The Catholic church doesn't have the same kind of hang-ups about creation, evolution, the Big Bang theory, etc., that many other denominations do. No one but God knows for sure how the universe began and life was created, so why spent time arguing and worrying about it?

I can think of a lot more useful ways to spend my time -- prayer, volunteer work, etc. -- than getting caught up in useless arguements.

Answer 3

I don't. The Church allows that Evolutionary theory, including the Big Bang Theory on Creation is possible, and doesn't conflict with True faith in God.

One must consider a couple of things. First is that while a Pope made a declaration that the Big Bang Theory is plausible, doesn't mean that the Church subscribes to it, completely. Nothing becomes official Doctrine unless approved by the Council of Cardinals, so therefore the Pope's words are very influential to every Catholic, but not Doctrine or part of our faith.

Second, when the Pope made that announcement, the only evidence out there supported the Big Bang Theory. Now, there is so much evidence against it(including the fact that every planet does not rotate in the same direction), other theories are gaining more weight--including Intelligent Design and the Young Earth Theory. In fact, scientists fear an upheavel of thought which is why they have fought to keep these scientific theories out of schools. If the Big Bang/Ancient Earth Theory is so sound, why does it fear attack?

It's kind of funny, even though science has come a long way with saying that the Earth revolves around the Sun and the Earth is on the Edge of the Milky Way Galaxy, no one can still disprove the Church's original stance that the Earth is the Center of the Universe. Since one cannot accurately Measure the circumfrence of the Universe, you cannot yet discern where the center is, can you? Maybe the Earth needs to be in orbit around the Sun to maintain it's center in a constantly rotating universe? You don't know. The Church has even allowed for the Creation account to be a myth, and as we know from history, some myths are factual and others are not, they only remain myths, however, until there is enough evidence to make it fact.

Finally, the Church does not fear Science, because in the end, every aspect of our universe has the Creator's signature all over it, and ends up bolstering our faith. I do believe those scientists who have made Science their religion fear the Church, because as they get deeper and deeper, there is only one answer that makes sense--and that would counteract their beliefs.

Food for thought.

Jeff Frye

Thank you for your excellent retort, allow me to offer one of my own.

First, saying that the Big Bang Theory doesn't go against Creation Ex Nihilo is a little flawed. The faith of "ex Nihilo" is that God Created the World out of Nothing, a literal translation of the Latin. The Big Bang Theory rests solely on Pre-existant Matter. That matter would have had to exist along with God before Creation, which is really against Ex Nihilo.

Secondly, "Intelligent Design and the Young Earth Theory" Do provide evidence for a Creator--Albeit inconclusive, you still need faith. There is evidence for a Universal Designer, which flies in the face of most theories about aliens from other galaxies, etc. Plus the Big Bang Theory rests on an Old Earth philosophy. It takes billions of years for planets to cool from the blast and your infintessimal chance for amino acids to bond with each other instead of the 99% of tar and other chemicals harmful to life to begin the Evolutionary Process. A young Earth Theory, if evidence starts to turn in favor of it, would not only completely debunk Evolutionary Theory just on the basis of not having enough time, but also the Big Bang for the same reason. Also, let us not forget that the Big Bang is an explosion throwing planets in random direction, not placing them in intricate and precise order as Intelligent Design purports.


It is correct to say that there is much evidence against evolution. Gaps in the theory are HUGE in comparison to Creationism. There is no evidence for Macro Evolution. Micro yes, Different kinds of Dogs, Cats, etc., not Macro. All of the supposed Missing Links have been debunked as frauds, most of them fusing Ape's Skulls and Human Jaws and vice versa--a mockery of true Science. The Mathematical chances for Evolutionary theory to be sound considering all the factors to be in place for life to occur is ASTRONOMICAL. Historical evidence on the woes of subscribing to Evolutionary theory are equally as scary. Hitler, especially, used Evolution to justify his actions. His theories were bunk, but the principles that they are founded on goes against everything a Catholic is called to do-- Protect the weak, help the poor and destitute. Evolution runs a contrary worldview that is harmful to humanity with its "survival of the fittest" montra. Saying that a Creator would Create the World with that in mind is preposterous. It actually takes more faith for someone to believe in Evolutionary Theory than Creationism because of the Swiss Cheesed holes in it.

Actually, if you look at the core of "The Big Bang Theory", the idea that planets rotate differently kind of flies in the face of it. Matter originated in one source, the force thrust on every planet/star would have been equal and constant. The only thing that would cause a deviation from the original rotation is that it's rotation was changed by an outside source bumping into it, etc. If all matter originated in one source, there would have been nothing for billions of years big enough to change the rotation of a planet.

Finally, I have to admit, that the Church was utilizing secular scientific theory(Ptolemy was a General of Alexander the Great and Pagan by practice) when making that statement, does not contradict the statement of the Church. God knows the truth on how everything was Created, even if the Church was using bad Science at the time to prove the Truth, possibly. It laid the foundation for Copernicus, Galileo, etc. to prove it using more developed Science much later in the future. Granted it's far fetched, and barely a hypothesis, but just because the culture at the time did not know fact, doesn't mean that they were wrong. For example, the Jews were taught by God how to keep clean and eat right. They had know idea that Shellfish are poisonous because they clean the ocean and have no excrement to release the poisons. They had no idea that pigs are filthiest of animals and eat Cancer sores off each other, and they had no idea that cleaning under running water helped keep disease away--even made Supersticious people in the Middle Ages think they brought about the Black Plague because they had no idea that God's ordinances were keeping the plague from subduing them.

One thing we can agree on, Faith is essential for the Catholic Faith. I would just purport that Faith is needed in order to further Science to its ultimate goal as well.

More Food for thought,

Jeff

Answer 4

I believe in the big bang,.... it just hasn't happened yet


blessings :)

oops sorry I'm not a Catholic, but a Christian...

Answer 5

I believe in it, I believe that God spoke and bang all things were created.

In Christ
Fr. Joseph