Can you add to my list of "What atheists find easier to believe in than the possibility of existence of God" ?

Question

1- 1000 monkeys typing non stop for 1000 years could produce the entire works of Shakespeare, but there isn't even an infinitesimally small chance that a higher power exists. None. No chance at all.

2- There was nothing before the universe was created, and the Universe was created from nothing, but there isn't even an infinitesimally small chance that a higher power exists. None. No chance at all.

3-Humans evolved from tiny amoeba in a rock pool (I'm not disputing this, just pointing out the huge odds required for it to happen) to a stage to be able to ponder about a God, but there isn't even an infinitesimally small chance that a higher power exists. None. No chance at all.

4- To explain anomalies in astronomical calculations, you have to believe in something that has never been seen or proven to exist, so we accept that Dark Matter/Dark Energy must be real, but there isn't even an infinitesimally small chance that a higher power exists. None. No chance at all.

You get the idea.

Sorry jonmcn49, it is currently the opinion of modern science that "nothing" existed before the big bang. I do not know what their definition of "nothing" is.

My point is only that atheists would accept even the most improbable notion, before they would admit to even the most remote chance of a higher power existing. That attitude, ruling out the possibility, is the antithesis of science.

Yes, eagleflyer, my point eactly ! Science isn't about absolutes, atheists are.

You know the funny thing is, I wasn't arguing the existence(or not) of God, I was arguing that most YA atheists would be more likely to believe in anything, even flying spaghetti monsters, in preference to believing that even the slightest possibility exists of some higher power(not necessarily the Biblical God).

Answer 1

flying spaghetti monster

Answer 2

1. 1000 monkeys could do no such thing. If you had infinite monkeys then technically they could, but it would be impossible to have infinite monkeys because there isn't enough matter in the universe.
2. We don't know how the universe was 'created' or indeed if it was. Nothing that happened before the Big Bang could possibly affect anything that happened after, so we can't know where the matter came from. The same principle means that if a supernatural being caused the Big Bang, it would have no effect on the universe after the Big Bang, and therefore couldn't be the god of any modern creation myth.
3. Technically amoeba are modern organisms that didn't exist when life was first created, but close enough. Anyway our evolution does not suggest a higher power.
4. We can observe the effects of dark matter. Without it, galaxies couldn't remain stable. The nature of this matter isn't yet fully understood, but that's certainly not a reason to say 'God did it'.

As for your comments about an infinitesimally small chance that a higher power exists, of course that chance exists. But we don't take it seriously because it's infinitesimally small. You may think that the certainty of atheism is illogical, but you are just as certain about plenty of things despite an infinitesimally small chance that you're wrong. For example, if you believe that this answer exists, then you're ignoring the possibility that you're hallucinating it. If you allow someone to take a photo of you, then you're ignoring the possibility that your soul will be captured. If you don't pray to Allah five times a day, you're ignoring the possibility that Islam is true. Basically, if you're sure of anything other than your own existence then you're ignoring the possibility that you're wrong. And if that possibility is infinitesimally small, then there's obviously nothing wrong with that.

Answer 3

1. That's not the analogy. It's that an infinite number of monkeys on an infinite number of typewriters will eventually write the entire works of William Shakespeare. This experiment has already taken place and has been deemed a success. Actually it was one monkey (well, close enough) who wrote it all. His name was William Shakespeare.

2. What? You don't even understand what the big bang theory is do you? You also realize that there are competing theories too right?

3. Yes. Though it wasn't a now you see it now you don't kind of deal. The evolutionary changes happened subtly over something like 3.5 BILLION years. Individually each of these changes weren't so improbable, especially since we have seen similar individual changes over the past 50 years.

4. Yawn. It is possible that we might discover the existance of something akin to a higher power. Your story by the way is how we test hypotheses. We know a, b, c, d, e,and f which can be explained by this model. If this model is right, x, y and z must also be true. Lets test for x, y and z to determine if our model is valid. This is the scientific method. This is good science. You would have us start with the conclusion and make up things that support the conclusion. That's why ID and the creation museum represent bad science.

You are also misunderstanding the concept of atheism. It is technically possible that God exists, even if the odds of it are outrageous. No matter how huge you think the odds are of any of the things you talked about, the odds of a creator MUST be even worse! For something to design something as complex as the universe, the designer must be more complex than its creation. Almost by definition, that would make the existance of the creator more improbable than the "creation" existing without the creator. (See source link)

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prophecyofgod, what's so bad about being worm food? That's one of the first revelations I had that made me doubt Christianity!!

Lore, what?

Answer 4

1- 1000 monkeys >

I do not believe this for one second.

2- There was nothing before the universe was created >

This is a common misconception - Big Bang theory does NOT state that there was nothing before it happened, Big Bang theory states that matter was in a different state.

3-Humans evolved from tiny amoeba >

Wrong. Humans evolved from a pre-human primate that was almost identical to humans. Evolution does NOT dictate that an amoeba set off to become human and just did.

4- Dark Matter/Dark Energy must be real, etc >

Until there is some sort of proof of its existence, I'll only consider it in a fictional/poetic sense. What you fail to realise is that studies into these sort of things come up with a lot more answers that when someone goes out looking for physical proof of gods. By the way, on the subject of Dark Matter -> http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2006/aug/HQ_06297_CHANDRA_Dark_Matter.html

Next time, do your research before insulting the people who make your Internets work.

Answer 5

I'll address your point #4.

Scientists can study dark matter by looking at the effects it has on visible objects.

Scientists understand exactly how objects behave when pulled on by gravity. They have mathematical formulas to calculate orbits and the movement of objects that are attracting each other. This is how they can send a spacecraft to meet up with a particular comet at a particular moment in time, or predict exactly when Mars will be closest to Earth.

Now when astronomers look carefully at a galaxy, they can measure how fast the stars within it are moving. The motions of the stars are the result of the gravitational forces from all the other matter in the galaxy. But here is the key problem: When astronomers add up all the matter in all the stars and gas and dust visible with all different kinds of telescopes, it doesn't total nearly enough to explain the motions they observe. The stars are moving around much faster than they should be. In other words, all the matter we can see is not enough to produce the gravity that is pulling things around. This problem shows up over and over again almost wherever we look in the universe. Not only do stars in galaxies move around faster than expected, but galaxies within groups of galaxies do too. In all cases, there must be something else there, something we can't see, something dark.

This mismatch between what we see and what we know must be there may seem very mysterious, but it is not hard to imagine. You know that people can't float in mid-air, so if you saw what looked like a man doing just that, you would know right away that there must be wires holding him up, even if you couldn't see them.

The name scientists have given to the missing material is "dark matter." We can see the bright matter, like stars, but we know some other matter is there because of how it pulls on the bright matter. The black background of space that we tend to ignore when we enjoy the beautiful sights of the night sky really isn't as empty as you might think. As surprising as it might seem, there is more than 50 times more dark matter than bright matter in the universe.

Answer 6

So your only response to the lack of an answer is to posit the existence of a "higher power". You can't believe that the universe was created from nothing, yet you would believe that there is a personal, loving god who was? You may claim that god has always existed, but I fail to see how this is more satisfying or makes more sense. The world is difficult to comprehend, but as bewildering as it is there is no need to add an even more inexplicable "higher power". Do you think that the people who believed in the greek and roman gods were certain about their existence? Who would say they were right now?

Answer 7

point, the theory for number one isn't 1000 monkeys for 1000 years it's an infinite number of monkeys for an infinite number f year. (It would take a really long time to randomly achieve Shakespeare)

The thing that a lot of people don't realize about science is that the idea that it will answer everything and replace religion has been abandoned by most scientists. In fact your right, there is always the chance. Never say there isn't a chance.

Answer 8

There are so many errors in your thinking, I won't even start. But for #2 and #3, I have this: I think it's even MORE miraculous and wonderful to think that yes, it IS all chance. That by the miracle of science and evolution, we ended up exactly as we are today. It could have gone in many different directions, but it didn't.

So yes, I believe the universe was created from nothing (remember that matter can spontaneously generate in a vacuum, like space) but I don't believe there is even an infinitesimally small chance that a higher power exists. And I do believe that humans evolved from a rock pool (or something thereabouts) but I have stopped pondering the existence of God.

I have proof of the two things you mentioned. I do not have proof of god. It's that simple. The bible, the world, my son, nature... none of that is proof of god. When god starts speaking to me or appearing to me himself, I'll consider believing. Not before.

Answer 9

for all the non cequitars and unrelated paralllels I still can't consign myself to belief in all the contradictions and lies associated with the belief in gods especially when I've studied some history and comparative religion and can see the development that the preacher ignores when proselytizing to the masses . for instance the revelation of the future is not subject to truth in advertising but have you ever heard mention of TV computers or automobils in the word of god or just far reaching twisted attempts to interpret it to seem to make sense . one thousand monkeys have little to do with mans basic psychology and his primitive need to make up answers when there are none . our instincts for survival and the need to see beyond death our neurotic at the least and only understanding of the inevitable realities of life and death can help people to cope without throwing a virgin down a volcano or believing in an imaginary deity that just happens to satistfy all our mysteries as did the roman mythology and the sun god Ra of Egypt . As education increases mans understanding a more real understanding of nature is growing and the adolescent society is becoming an adult albeit ever slow gradually.I don't believe in your type casting of atheist but I do keep it real and live in the here and now till the end of the line and then all the science and knowledge will go to the next generation to start from scratch but with the benefit of a head start if they learn how to wade through the waste of human conjecture in thought.

Answer 10

I am a de facto atheist and I don't rule out the tiny chance that there are gods. But if something hovers this close to zero, does it make sense to call me agnostic?

1. you'd need at least a couple of billion monkeys and years and then it still only remains a probability, and will not be a certainty

2. no atheist believes this; you misunderstand Big Bang theory

3. see my opening paragraph

4. I'm not an astronomer, sorry. I'm aware of the general idea of what you are talking about and the how and why but that is it. No opinion.

Answer 11

You have not put forward anything but arguments from ignorance; in the classic form! If it is not X, it must be Y. I get the idea; your stupid!

PS to address number two; showing how stupid you are. No one said the universe was created from nothing. When you people answer the question," where did god come from " with your answer," he was always here ", I go one further; the universe was always here, thus precluding the need for some creator god. Open that closed mind, if possible.

Wrong again. Scientists do not have opinions and what proceeded the big bang is not even speculation. You say things, but that does not make it true.
god, which is an explanation for everything, ends up being an explanation for nothing. And your definition of science is backwards.