Volkswagon Beetle NO BRAKES! Cant seem to fix it.?

Question

WOw what an ordeal, the master cylinder replaced twice (to make sure didnt get a bad part, 2 sets of softlines, new set of hardlines, new brake pads, wheel cylinders, has rear brakes NO FRONT BRAKES. Have adjusted the petals. ANy ideas. Over 37 hours on this car and my friend is depending on it to drive back and forth to work. Many gallons of brake fluid is going to waste. Please help!
It makes no sense, have bled the brakes (only has rear brakes). the drums will spin on the front when the petal is fully depressed. Any help would be appreciated. he is thinking of getting rid of the car which he loves because of this problem. So if you are familiar. Brakes are simple, we understand that. But this is so crazy. Never heard anything like it. 3 adults have worked on it to no avail.

1973 not a super beetle. yes they have mechanical experience. I always love a good air thief checking in.

Are the wheel cylinders good, and not leaking ? Yes they are they too were replaced being boggled.

Make sue the front brakes are adjusted correctly . Yes they are used a very experienced person as well as the standard volkswagon manual.

What year beetle ? 1973

Old aircooled or new watercooled ? aircooled

You have a leak somewhere that lets the brake fluid escape and allow air into the system. That is just it no leak. How strange!

Just follow the lines and check all connections. Followed the lines, no leak. If you press the pedal the front brakes do not move at all.

Yes, it is my boyfriends car he has experience and so does his friend thank you. I posted to help him fix it everyone is drawing a blank. and he really needs the car and I know he doesnt want to get rid of it so please help@!!

http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/wolfsburg_new/brakes/bug_brake/bug_brakes.cfm

I am the "boyfriend" in question :)

THX SO MUCH for the feedback!!!

1973 std Beetle Bone Stock.

All this started with a busted soft line on the driver side. Both front soft lines looked ancient so when the one broke I replaced both of them. Since then we have been completely without front brakes, but the back brakes have been fine. I have changed all 4 wheel cylinders, the master cylinder twice, the soft and hard lines, adjusted the brake pedal, re-verified that the shoes are adjusted properly, and replaced the the rubber tubing that connects the reservoir to the master cylinder. With all of this the problem is the exact same as when it started...no fronts and the backs are 100%.

The master cylinder has a seperated reservoir, one side for the front and one side for the back. It has two seperate inlets, one for the front and one for the back. If that doesn't make sense look @ the exploded view on wolfsburgwestdotcom. It DOES NOT look like that. It has 2 inlets to the reservoir.

Answer 1

OK, first, you have no proportioning valve, so that's not the answer. The hoses are all new, so that's not it.
First make sure your fronts are properly adjusted. You should wind them up until there's just a bit of drag when you turn the drums.
Bleeding: Start at the right rear, then left rear, right front, left front. All bled? Then not the issue.
Adjust the rears TIGHT, then try the brakes. Still no fronts? Getting clean fluid out of the front bleeders & they're adjusted?
OK. Loosen your rears back up to where they belong.
Pull the front drums. Have someone apply the brakes SLOWLY.
See if your wheel cylinders are expanding. No? Either frozen wheel cylinders, or bad master cylinder #3.
Yes?

Here's a thought: When you buy shoes, in the box are 2 primary shoes & 2 secondary shoes. The primarys have longer linings, & grab first to give you a 'servo (twisting) action' inside the drum. If you have them reversed, you won't get this action, & your brakes won't have any stopping power.
Don't feel dumb if that's what happened. It's very common if you don't do a lot of work on drum brakes. I see it at least once a week.

Answer 2

Ok.. this is a long shot but because you have replaced everything else lets try it by the numbers.. we asume that you are not losing fluid.. that would be easy to spot and fix.. so...

1) Get some more brake fluid

2) Disconnect the slave cylinders at each wheel and step on the brakes.. do you get fluid? Yes.. move forward.. No.. examine the lines to the master cylinder

3) Connect the cylinders and step on the brakes with the drums off.. do the shoes expand?
DO THEY CONTRACT (yes.. put on the drums .. no.. make sure you have the right hoses - remember you have to have two-way fluid flow in a brake hose).

4) Drums on: Step on the brakes.. do they lock the drums? yes.. problem solved

yes.. adjust the brakes.. No.. problem lies with your master cylinder somehow..

Master cylinder..
a) Do the brake lights come on when you step on the brakes (could you possibly have the brake line screwed into the pressure switch hole?)

b) Did you do a bench bleed on the new master? You could have a pocket of air in there that won't come out with normal bleeding process.

Its got to be between the master cyllinder and the slaves.. this is a mechanical system and so you must have a mechanical error..

good luck?

.

Answer 3

Check the "valve" that splits the line between front and rear. Its an aluminium block it is clogged or broken. Follow the line that exits the master cilinder this comes into this block then one line goes to the back and one to the front. Also make sure that the drums and disks were "cut" before installing the new pads. if not you just messed the pads and have to buy new ones. Old drums and disks tend to "cristallize" and just wont stop even with new pads and need to be cut to eliminate this polished metal. Also check for adjustment, the tire must be a little hard to turn on new pads even without pressing the pedal, if you do not adjust the brakes even new cilinders will fail and leak due to over expansion ( they can only move so far out).

Answer 4

Are the wheel cylinders good, and not leaking ? Make sue the front brakes are adjusted correctly . What year beetle ? Old aircooled or new watercooled ?You have a leak somewhere that lets the brake fluid escape and allow air into the system. Just follow the lines and check all connections.

Answer 5

I am gonna trust you on the fact you have figured out how to bleed the brakes. The two chambers in the master - each is suppose to work one front and one rear diagonally. That is beside the point.
Check the brake shoes. Pull off the drum and the shoes and lay the shoes in the drum. Do they fit the circumference or are they different? I am guessing the shoes are the problem - wrong model, whatever. Take a drum with you to the store and match up shoes to the drum.
I can't see anything else that can be a possibility.

Answer 6

is it possible the wheel cylinders are mounted upside down?I dont know the car too well but i went thru the same thing with a plymouth caravell and mounted the front calipers on the wrong sides and the bleeder screw was at the bottom instead of at the top and air couldnt bleed out causing a no pedal,easy mistake and made me feel like an a$$ but it happens to the best of us. good luck

Answer 7

i just had the same problem with my 68 beetle brakes
(well i had front brakes but no back) i replaced everything new from m/c to the brake pads and got every bit of the air out and still i have no back brakes! they say to adjust the pad adjusters all the way out until the wheel will not urn freely then back it off 2 clicks! that helped me a bit but they still aren't perfect!

Answer 8

Yes they are. I have one, and it's very solid and stable on a highway. This car is heavy for its size, because body panels are made of galvanized steel. Much harder stuff than what you'll find on American cars or Asian cars of its class. It has 4 airbags upfront, ABS, and traction control. It also has very tight, responsive steering (helps you steer around obstacles), and a shape that protects you in case of rollover. The crash ratings have been cited by another poster. If you want to see real-life experience, there are many on the site below. Some people have rolled their bug 10 times and walked away with just bruises. It's all there on the forum, and the people are very helpful and friendly - not angry and arrogant like most other car forums.

Answer 9

Try what grady c says, but if you haven't got a dual circuit master cylinder try one, and then your ready for discs up front in the future.

Answer 10

sounds like there is still a leak.this causes no pressure to front caliper.try putting dry cardboard under car.apply pressure on petal and look for dripp.

good luck