Atheists: Why are their constants in the universe?

Question

Fred Hoyle (British astrophysicist): "A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as with chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces worth speaking about in nature. The numbers one calculates from the facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost beyond question." (2)

George Ellis (British astrophysicist): "Amazing fine tuning occurs in the laws that make this [complexity] possible. Realization of the complexity of what is accomplished makes it very difficult not to use the word 'miraculous' without taking a stand as to the ontological status of the word." (3)

Paul Davies (British astrophysicist): "There is for me powerful evidence that there is something going on behind it all....It seems as though somebody has fine-tuned nature’s numbers to make the Universe....The impression of design is overwhelming". (4)

Paul Davies: "The laws [of physics] ... seem to be the product of exceedingly ingenious design... The universe must have a purpose". (5)

Alan Sandage (winner of the Crawford prize in astronomy): "I find it quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be some organizing principle. God to me is a mystery but is the explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something instead of nothing." (6)

John O'Keefe (astronomer at NASA): "We are, by astronomical standards, a pampered, cosseted, cherished group of creatures.. .. If the Universe had not been made with the most exacting precision we could never have come into existence. It is my view that these circumstances indicate the universe was created for man to live in." (7)

George Greenstein (astronomer): "As we survey all the evidence, the thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency - or, rather, Agency - must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially crafted the cosmos for our benefit?" (8)

Arthur Eddington (astrophysicist): "The idea of a universal mind or Logos would be, I think, a fairly plausible inference from the present state of scientific theory." (9)

Arno Penzias (Nobel prize in physics): "Astronomy leads us to a unique event, a universe which was created out of nothing, one with the very delicate balance needed to provide exactly the conditions required to permit life, and one which has an underlying (one might say 'supernatural') plan." (10)

Roger Penrose (mathematician and author): "I would say the universe has a purpose. It's not there just somehow by chance." (11)

Tony Rothman (physicist): "When confronted with the order and beauty of the universe and the strange coincidences of nature, it's very tempting to take the leap of faith from science into religion. I am sure many physicists want to. I only wish they would admit it." (12)

Vera Kistiakowsky (MIT physicist): "The exquisite order displayed by our scientific understanding of the physical world calls for the divine." (13)

Robert Jastrow (self-proclaimed agnostic): "For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries." (14)

Stephen Hawking (British astrophysicist): "Then we shall… be able to take part in the discussion of the question of why it is that we and the universe exist. If we find the answer to that, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason - for then we would know the mind of God." (15)

Frank Tipler (Professor of Mathematical Physics): "When I began my career as a cosmologist some twenty years ago, I was a convinced atheist. I never in my wildest dreams imagined that one day I would be writing a book purporting to show that the central claims of Judeo-Christian theology are in fact true, that these claims are straightforward deductions of the laws of physics as we now understand them. I have been forced into these conclusions by the inexorable logic of my own special branch of physics." (16)

Alexander Polyakov (Soviet mathematician): "We know that nature is described by the best of all possible mathematics because God created it."(17)

Ed Harrison (cosmologist): "Here is the cosmological proof of the existence of God – the design argument of Paley – updated and refurbished. The fine tuning of the universe provides prima facie evidence of deistic design. Take your choice: blind chance that requires multitudes of universes or design that requires only one.... Many scientists, when they admit their views, incline toward the teleological or design argument." (18)

Edward Milne (British cosmologist): "As to the cause of the Universe, in context of expansion, that is left for the reader to insert, but our picture is incomplete without Him [God]." (19)

Barry Parker (cosmologist): "Who created these laws? There is no question but that a God will always be needed." (20)

Drs. Zehavi, and Dekel (cosmologists): "This type of universe, however, seems to require a degree of fine tuning of the initial conditions that is in apparent conflict with 'common wisdom'." (21)

Arthur L. Schawlow (Professor of Physics at Stanford University, 1981 Nobel Prize in physics): "It seems to me that when confronted with the marvels of life and the universe, one must ask why and not just how. The only possible answers are religious. . . . I find a need for God in the universe and in my own life." (22)

Henry "Fritz" Schaefer (Graham Perdue Professor of Chemistry and director of the Center for Computational Quantum Chemistry at the University of Georgia): "The significance and joy in my science comes in those occasional moments of discovering something new and saying to myself, 'So that's how God did it.' My goal is to understand a little corner of God's plan." (23)

Wernher von Braun (Pioneer rocket engineer) "I find it as difficult to understand a scientist who does not acknowledge the presence of a superior rationality behind the existence of the universe as it is to comprehend a theologian who would deny the advances of science." (24)

Carl Woese (microbiologist from the University of Illinois) "Life in Universe - rare or unique? I walk both sides of that street. One day I can say that given the 100 billion stars in our galaxy and the 100 billion or more galaxies, there have to be some planets that formed and evolved in ways very, very like the Earth has, and so would contain microbial life at least. There are other days when I say that the anthropic principal, which makes this universe a special one out of an uncountably large number of universes, may not apply only to that aspect of nature we define in the realm of physics, but may extend to chemistry and biology. In that case life on Earth could be entirely unique." (25)

Antony Flew (Professor of Philosophy, former atheist, author, and debater) "It now seems to me that the findings of more than fifty years of DNA research have provided materials for a new and enormously powerful argument to design." (26)

Answer 1

Yes, the universe is a wonderous place. It boggles the mind. It may well exceed our ability to ever truly understand.

If the universe didn't have the constants that it has, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Does it follow that the constants were set up just so for our benefit? That's just a latter-day version of "earth is the center of the universe" kind of thinking. Instead you could conclude that we are a consequence of the constants that the universe happens to have. There is no reason to suppose intentionality, and there is no reason to assume that anything like the God of the bible or of any human faith or mythology is responsible. That's just a bronze-age attempt to explain the universe that we find ourselves in. We may never be able to answer these questions fully, but we ought to be strive to do better.

Answer 2

Another blizzard of copy and paste factoids. What you're doing is called an appeal to authority. You've cited 25 quotes from eminent authorities to support your hidden agenda. Unfortunately, only Fred Hoyle's quote relates to the subject at hand and everything else is simply a blatant attempt to twist the cited author's intent to suit your purposes. Very, very unethical. (Are you an attorney?)

The reason the universe has constants with their current value is the anthropic principle. If we lived in a different universe, the same constants would have different values and you'd still be asking how it could be that they all have just the perfect value. The constants have the value they do precisely because we live in the universe that we do. No God is required to manipulate the constants to create a "perfect" universe. Instead, we evolved to occupy a random universe and when we finally measured the values of those constants, they perfectly matched the universe we already found ourselves in. No deity required!

The truth is everyone here in the R&S forum would much rather read your own opinion, in your own words, than a pile of almost-plagiarized factoids. (You cited the speaker, but not your source.) Also, please learn the proper use of "there," "their," and "they're." That alone will greatly enhance your creditability.

Answer 3

Well I didn't read all of the quotes you put up but I get the feeling they all say the same thing that they believe there may or is some type of force behind the creation of the universe. Well everyone has their own opinion but the universe is so vast it is not comprehensible to the human mind. So we as a human race cannot see it for what it actually is, and thus we are left with interpreting these fact, evidence and ideas without having all the evidence, facts and ideas. And come to answers that may or may not be correct. But as to your question, there is only one constant in the universe and that is change.

Answer 4

Same old fluff that we get from creationism. How many permutations does creationism have to go through before people realize it is just a watered down version of evolution? Burying the question in piles of quotes from famous people doesn't help. Constants in the universe can fall completely under the framework of the Anthropic Principle. This important concept is all too easily abused. It should be used very sparingly and to illustrate gaps or fallacies in human thought, not as a framework in and of itself. Look: in order to prove that God created the world the way it says in the Bible, you are going to have to discount evolution. There is only one way to do this: Pile on the probabilities, and not just any probabilities but ones that are 'anthropically independent' of each other. I don't think this can be done to any significant degree, creationists need to admit defeat, they look more stupid the more they argue their hollow points.

Answer 5

The Universe's mathematical constants are imaginary (theoretical) too. Home schooling FAIL.

Answer 6

Is man God’s greatest creation or is God man’s? This question has been around for a very long time, and no one seems to have the answer to this question. Atheists believe that man has created God while the rest believe that God created man. But what I think is that does it matter if I believe in God. Will it make a difference to me, I think not. Its mind over matter, you don’t mind it doesn’t matter.
Proving or disproving the existence of God is not possible, so why should we even try to do so. If you believe god exists very well then god exists for you, if you believe god doesn’t exist than god does not exist. The important thing is to think how you are going to earn your bread tomorrow, because that is what matters.

Answer 7

Wow, several of those guys were my teachers at some point. They were wrong. Or at least not being scientific. But there's no point in arguing, since I really doubt you understood their arguments. There was a good article in Nature about the anthropic principle a few months ago. Try reading that.

Answer 8

I am not an atheist but i would like to answer this one.

Psalm 19:1[kjv]The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

Hebrews 13:8[kjv]Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

JESUS loves you

www.fathersloveletter.com read it
www.e-water.net/loveletter_en.html watch it

John 3:16[kjv] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

so when we believe in JESUS we have eternal life.JESUS lived a sinless life and gave up his life as a sacrifice so we can be sin free. Ask JESUS to come into your heart and forgive ur sins and cleanse ur past with the blood JESUS shed on the cross.

With a simple prayer like above u can be saved.JESUS loves u and wants u to be saved.

Answer 9

Ya hoo,you wrote a book......that must have taken all day to read and type that up...What a waste of time.....you seek answers to the existence of the universe..it is right to look at the times,philosophies and thesis of others. God is not and argument,he made philosophy, he wrote the first thesis in the heavens....

Answer 10

And the point is.
Mato Wacipiwa (Philosopher, Astronomer, Physicist, Cosmologist) "Life is the natural consequence of carbon based chemistry." - "The Universe is a creation without a creator, it is the way it is because that is the way it is." - "Life is the bizarre situation you find yourself in just before you die." - "I'd rather be at a Grateful Dead concert."