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In defining the trinity, the Catholic Athanasian Creed says: "And in this Trinity none is afore or after Other, None is greater or less than Another, but the whole Three Persons are Co-eternal together, and Co-equal." If the Athanasian Creed is Bible-based, what scriptures will support its concept of God?

2007-05-29 03:22:47 · 20 answers · asked by LineDancer 7 in Society & Culture Religion & Spirituality

20 answers

Matthew 28:19 (Name is not plural and the sentence is not sequential or serial, Father, Son and Holy Ghost are subsumed in the one Name). Also Gen, 1:1. Bereshith berach YHVH elohim (plural) ha shamaim w'eth ha eretz. it goes on to speak of the Spirit of God moving on the face of the waters. The corresponding text in St. John's Gospel says En Arche en O Logos, kai O Logos en pros ton Theon, houtos hos en arche pros ton Theon..In the begining was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God, the same was in the beginning with God and without Him was not any thing made that was made.. the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and we saw His glory, the glory as of the only-begotten of the Father full of grace and truth. I know you don't believe or will discount these texts, but the fact remains they are in the Bible.
There is also the appearance of the LORD to Abram at the oaks of Mamre, Gen. 18:2, you will object, of course that it says "three men", but why then does the rest of the story deal with communication between Abram and the Lord?
1 Timothy 3:16-4:2 well establishes the relationship of Christ and the Spirit, and the nature of those who speak and teach contrary. Romans 8:16&17 shows the three in one as does Paul's greeting 2 Cor. 13:13.
And NO this is not just Catholic doctrine, this is the doctrine of the Church.
The so-called Athanasian Creed antedates the Roman Catholic Church. and Orthodox Christians do not subordinate the Spirit to the Father and Son, the "filioque" clause was a Western addition, not even used at Rome itself until the 8th Cent. and anathematized at the split between East and West in1054.

It is truly a shame that people have no grasp whatever of Conciliar theology and little if any training in Church history. Charlatans can say any number of things about supposed motives of church leaders or hidden esoteric texts and other such garbage and people eat it up. There is also a rabid anti-Catholicism which has no grounding in any rational argument or history. Folks like the Jehovah Witnesses simply substitute a complete rewriting of Scripture for anything which challenges or doesn't support their views, unffortunately they seem to have learned this from some dogmatic Catholics.

2007-06-05 10:47:43 · answer #1 · answered by Fr. Al 6 · 1 1

Trinitarianism is the teaching that God is triune, that He has revealed Himself in three co-equal and co-eternal Persons, but the Bible does not specifically state it in those words.
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1) There is one God: Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5.

2) The Trinity consists of three Persons: Genesis 1:1; 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8; 48:16; 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17; Matt 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14. In the passages in the Old Testament, a knowledge of Hebrew is helpful. In Genesis 1:1, the plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Genesis 1:26; 3:22; 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for "us" is used. That "Elohim" and "us" refer to more than two is WITHOUT question. In English, you only have two forms, singular and plural. In Hebrew, you have three forms: singular, dual, and plural. Dual is for two ONLY. In Hebrew, the dual form is used for things that come in pairs like eyes, ears, and hands. The word "Elohim" and the pronoun "us" are plural forms - definitely more than two - and must be referring to three or more (Father, Son, Holy Spirit).

In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus' baptism. Seen in this is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of 3 distinct persons in the Trinity.

3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages: In the Old Testament, "LORD" is distinguished from "Lord" (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The "LORD" has a "Son" (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). Spirit is distinguished from the "LORD" (Numbers 27:18) and from "God" (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, John 14:16-17 is where Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit. This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also all of the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another person in the Trinity - the Father.

4) Each member of the Trinity is God: The Father is God: John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2. The Son is God: John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20. The Holy Spirit is God: Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16 (The One who indwells is the Holy Spirit - Romans 8:9; John 14:16-17; Acts 2:1-4).

5) The subordination within the Trinity: Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship, and does not deny the deity of any person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see: Luke 22:42; John 5:36; John 20:21; 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see: John 14:16; 14:26; 15:26; 16:7 and especially John 16:13-14.

6) The tasks of the individual members of the Trinity: The Father is the ultimate source or cause of: 1) the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); 2) divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); 3) salvation (John 3:16-17); and 4) Jesus' human works (John 5:17; 14:10). The Father INITIATES all of these things.

The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: 1) the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); 2) divine revelation (John 1:1; Matthew 11:27; John 16:12-15; Revelation 1:1); and 3) salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.

The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: 1) creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); 2) divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); 3) salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and 4) Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.

2007-05-29 03:42:20 · answer #2 · answered by Freedom 7 · 0 1

It doesn't.

As many have stated it is 'HINTED' at in the bible.

I have yet to read a verse in support of a trinity, that when you read the context, or even the complete verse that supports or even hints at a trinity.

The New Catholic Encyclopedia states: “The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.”—(1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.

Even if ‘Sam’ is a Grandfather, Father, and Son, Sam still has only one will, unless he is mentally disturbed or Sam is three different individuals. Sam Sr., Sam Jr., & Sam III.

Heb 13:8
Jesus may have many titles, but he is always submissive to Jehovah.

Before coming to the earth, while on the earth, and after returning to heaven.
(Prov. 8:22; Matt 27:46; John 20:17; & Rev 3:12)

13:9 The trinity is a Catholic teaching, not a Bible teaching. Even the Catholic Church is honest enough to admit it.

You can "prove" the trinity only by using improper english, misquote scripture and take scripture out of context.

2007-06-04 17:20:51 · answer #3 · answered by TeeM 7 · 0 1

Jesus has to be revealed to a person before they can see the Godhead.

There is no trinity. There is three manifestations of the Godhead. There are just to many scriptures to mention to prove this. Read the Bible.

Trinity is a Catholic doctrine, some thing they have passed on to most denominational churches.

I'll give you one scripture. That most if not all new translations of the Bible will remove. Because the translations are influenced by trinity preachers.

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Look this up in other bibles it will be removed or changed significantly.

This is often a topic that will cause people to argue. Because they don't understand the Godhead.

Jesus said if you see me you see the Father, he also tell us of the comforter that will return. The comforter which is the Holy Ghost. He says I will not leave you comfortless I will come to you. You'll find this in John chapter 14.

2007-05-29 04:16:46 · answer #4 · answered by Old Hickory 6 · 2 1

I don't think the Bible actually says the word "trinity." But the concept is there.

It is not in just one verse. There are several verses that indicate a triune God. Many Bible scholars over the centuries have studied the Bible and prayed, and concluded that God is a Trinity.

Here's a list of Bible verses I found, which indicate that God is a Trinity. There are too many to list here individually.

http://www.naves-topical-bible.com/TRINITY.html

p.s. Someone said "you will never get the answer you want." That may be true, at least in part. You may not get the answer you are looking for from this forum. Maybe only God can answer what you are really asking. Since it takes faith to believe, not all believe. Some answers can only come from God. I'm praying for you, who have asked this question, that God will show you the truth. And also for all of those who have answered you, that God will show all of us the truth.
I may not have much faith in mankind's ability to understand things, but I do have faith in God's ability to make Himself understood!
:)

2007-05-29 03:33:24 · answer #5 · answered by OliveOyl† 2 · 4 0

You bring out some good points‘The trinity is a very popular belief in our time. But this is not what was taught by Jesus and his disciples. So, we worship the One that Jesus said to worship.’ ‘When Jesus was teaching, here is the commandment that he said was greatest . . . (Mark 12:28-30)28......I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am......’ (2) ‘Jesus never claimed to be equal to God. He said . . . (John 14:28)as you point out ‘Then what is the origin of the Trinity doctrine? There are Bible texts that I could never fit in with that belief. Here is one of them. (Matt. 24:36) (1If the Son is equal to the Father, how is it that the Father knows things that the Son does not?’ If this was true only regarding his human nature, But then why does the holy spirit not know?’ Here's what the Scriptures do say about God. (Ps. 83:18; John 4:23, 24)’ I do believe in Jesus Christ but not in the Trinity. Why? Because I believe what the apostle Peter believed about Christ. Notice what he said . . . (Matt. 16:15-17).15.’He[Jesus]said to them:"You though who do you say I am?"(16.In answer Simon Peter said:"You are the Christ, the Son of the living God"(17.In response Jesus said to him:"Happy you are, Simon son of Jonah, because flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but my Father who is in the heavens did." ‘ notice also, that at John 17:3 Jesus speaks of his Father as “the only true God.” So, at most, Jesus is just a reflection of the true God.’ What is required on our part to be pleasing to God? (John 4:23, 24)23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.

2016-05-20 22:26:54 · answer #6 · answered by althea 3 · 0 0

This is a verse from Genesis that many have used to point to a Trinity, the fact of the word "us".
26 Then God said, “Let us make man [1] in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

I John 5:7
"For there are three bearing witness in heaven; the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one."

2007-05-29 03:34:01 · answer #7 · answered by sparkles9 6 · 5 0

The Bible does not contain the word Trinity. However, the Holy Trinity is hinted at repeatedly in both the Old and New Testaments.

Under the influence of the Holy Spirit, the early Christians prayed and struggled over these hints for a couple of centuries. The concept of the Holy Trinity (three persons in one God) was mainstream Christianity in 325 A.D. at the Council of Nicaea and our belief is expressed in the Nicene Creed from that council:

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in being with the Father. Through Him, all things were made. For us and our salvation, He came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit, He was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man. For our sake He was crucified under Pontius Pilate; He suffered, died, and was buried. On the third day, He rose again in fulfillment of the scriptures: He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son, He is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

With love in Christ.

2007-06-03 17:42:06 · answer #8 · answered by imacatholic2 7 · 1 1

The simple fact is that it is not Biblically based. The only source of that is the Athanasian creed. Well, I mean conceptually it had been around, but as doctrine, only the creed. The Roman Catholic Church, an authoritatian institution, had to invent a lot of religion to support their authority.

2007-05-29 03:27:41 · answer #9 · answered by Anonymous · 3 2

Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all called God at different times in the Bible. They are also differentiated, and called people. It isn't so much that one verse or passage says that God is a trinity as much as it is a logical inference made from the totality of the scriptural evidence.

2007-05-29 03:32:19 · answer #10 · answered by Anonymous · 5 2

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