Does it matter whether you accept evolution or a creationist worldview?

Question

I've been discussing the origin of HIV with a number of young people.

The scientific view is that it evolved from similar viruses (simian immunodeficiency viruses) that commonly infect animals similar to humans such as chimpanzees and other primates. We know a fair bit about how viruses evolve, and the ways their genes can naturally change over time. There's a lot of evidence to support this scientific view. Kids with a basic understanding of evolution seem to get this.

But some kids believe that living things have to have been created or intelligently designed. This means either HIV was made by God as part of His Plan, or evil but intelligent humans made it. The former hypothesis implies to me a theology of a capricious and psychopathic deity; the second has more in common with the delusional belief systems of paranoid schizophrenia. Neither "theory" has evidence to support it.

Is "intelligent design theory" benign?

Answer 1

You have hit it on the head.

I frequently like to ask creationists how they think their view of the origin of life helps them. I never get a good answer but I see lots of dire consequences such as you point out.

there is a basic philosophical difference in worldview between those who look to reason for explanations and answers and those who throw up their hands and ask God to solve their problems.

Answer 2

A Christian world view puts great value on the human since he was created by God. An evolutionary world view that man evolved from monkeys puts a limited value on a human. If you are just another monkey, why educate you and try to improve your living conditions. Your comparison of the young people as having a delusional belief system in common with schizophrenia is typical of a monkey brain that hasn't developed. If you knew anything you would know that HIV is the result of original sin and before the fall it didn't affect the human race.

Answer 3

I can only speak for myself. I personally believe in intelligent design from both a philisophical and scientific standpoint. But I have no problem with the evolution of HIV.
For one thing there is a distinct difference between "macro" and "micro" evolution.
Micro evolution deals with the ability of a line of creatures to adapt over time to a given climate, enviroment change etc, etc.
Macro evolution is the theory that a line of creatures can over time become something else. For example monkeys eventually becoming men.
The problem they are running into is possibly two fold. First, to see this evolution as "macro" rather than "micro." That is to say that your students may think any phrase which contains the word "evolution" is wrong. Second, they are only seeing two options here. Both of which go back to a form of intelligent desgin. Either by God or by man.
There is a third option. That option is that this evolution of HIV occured unitentionally via mankinds actions. We live in a fallen corrupt world that is not just corrupted philisophically, but actually in its physical form as well. As such we and nature are out of harmony. While we use nature and receive a lot of good from it, but it can also produce things which are harmful to us.
To cut to the chase, if you believe in intelligent design you believe in the fall of man and the subsequent corruption of the world. Intelligent design is benign to the extent that God is not the creator of HIV or any of these other sicknesses we deal with. They are a product of our own free will, our creation of corruption. It could be said we are unintentionally doing it to ourselves.
Now the discussion of free will and whether God should step in and stop us from killing ourselves is a totally different topic.

Answer 4

It doesn't matter as long as no-one forces their views on others, for example by damning to hell people who believe in evolution and excluding it from education or by stating that creationism is right "because the Bible says so".

The main problem with Creationism is that it provides no assistance to the understanding of the world around us, in particular in the fields of medical and genetic research which has enormous benefit to mankind. Someone on R&S a few weeks ago told me that I was damned to hell if I believed in DNA - such views may be perfectly acceptable in a church but do not assist children born with heridatry diseases or people suffering from cancer.

For the benefit of the answerer above, "species" is defined as a group of living things which does not interbreed with another *even though it might be capable of doing so and the resultant offspring are viable and fertile*.

Therefore "speciation", the formation of two separately recognised species from one "parent" species is a simple process which has occurred many thousands of times. To take a human example, if all white people stopped mating with all black people then instantly they would become two species, as scientifically defined.

Speciciation has been observed and proved in Cichlid fish in the African Rift Valley Lakes, in Galapogas finches, in ring species such as the herring gull and black-backed gull and Californian Salamander species, and the European Grasshopper species.

Answer 5

Creationism is such a nonsense in itself that it proves itself to be untrue: if there were something like God, would he create something that is so wrong, after all that work with evolution and creating an unlimited amount of evidence for evolution?

The next step of creationism:

HIV, earthquakes, hurricanes and storms are sent by god because you are all bad and did not obey your sermonizer.

Now, THAT is where they want us. It is about dominating us and getting donations.

And that's why these brain-washers make me p*ke.

Answer 6

This debate will go on for a long time yet. neither side has all the answers yet. One side is making progress while the other is very good with the propaganda. One will eventually have the truth. The other will and is at this time create tremendous hate and destroy us all.

Just where does most of the discrimination come from? Think about that one.

Answer 7

The origin of Man Evolution is a different concept than Evolution within a species.

That a species can evolve is proven. That species evolved from other species has never been proven. There has never been a species that changed to another altogether even microscopic life which can go through thousands of generations in a short time cannot change into another species altogether.

But Streptococcal virus cannot ever evolve into Chlamydia etc.

Answer 8

Accepting or believing in a non valid viewpoint after it has been disproved beyond a shadow of doubt is a rather small minded approach to life, rather like believing in Santa Claus as an adult.

On the other hand just believing is not necessarily harmful, as long as you are trying to push your false beliefs into the educational system.

Answer 9

The theory of intelligent design is delusional when referring to puppies and flowers. It's absolutely paranoid and vengeful when speaking of viruses and other kinds of disease.

I have trouble seeing either of these instances as being benign.

Answer 10

It makes you wonder why he'd create gays only to then have to create a virus to wipe them out..........along with those sinful hemophiliacs.

Oh.......hold on!, That's right!..............It's free will that makes people gay isn't it?

I remamber as a young school kid observing behaviour in guys over the years who were obviously always going to be gay, the suggestion they made a choice is really quite silly. About as silly as thinking that HIV is the result of intelligent design.