Jehovah Witnesses: Why should I not believe in the Trinity?

Question

Any sources would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Does greater mean better?

Answer 1

Hi there.

First off, I am not a member of the Watchtower organisation.

I am a sinner, FREELY forgiven by and reconciled to God through FAITH in His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, who was crucified to pay the penalty for my sins and who rose from the dead (Romans 3:21 - 30, Romans 10:4 - 10). I have been transformed FROM WITHIN by the power of the Holy Spirit through faith in the risen Son of God (John 3:3 - 8, Romans 8:8 - 11, Titus 3:4 - 7).

I have absolutely no need of any mediator between myself & God other than what the Bible explicitly teaches in 1 Timothy 2:5. I need no WT organisation, no 144,000 "anointed" class, no "Mary", no "saints", no masonic doctrines of Joseph Smith, no Rev. Moon or any of that unbiblical garbage. I don't even need "good works" as some kind of "mediator" to justify me in God's sight (Ephesians 2:8), just Jesus, my sympathetic eternal High Priest and my Lord & Saviour. His perfect sacrifice of Himself on the cross as payment IN FULL for my sin ensures my righteous standing before God. Saved by grace! Blessed assurance! Hallelujah!

In regard to the Trinity doctrine -

Here is biblical evidence that Father, Son & Holy Spirit are God. Three DISTINCT, but NOT SEPARATE "persons" -

Jesus is the First and the Last - Revelation 1:17.

Yahweh is the First and the Last - Isaiah 44:6.

"First and the Last" is by nature a UNIQUE title. If the Word (Jesus) is only a created being (albeit the highest created being) then surely the title of "The Second and the Last" would be more appropriate ?

Jesus is the "Alpha and the Omega" (Revelation 22:13), so is the Lord God (Jehovah) in Revelation 1:8. If Jesus is created, wouldn't a more appropriate title for Him be "The BETA and the Omega" ?

Jesus shares (the same) honour with the Father (John 5:23). THIS IS ACTUALLY THE FATHER'S WILL. To give Jesus the SAME honour as the Father must surely include worship, as the Father is honoured in such a manner & indeed, Revelation 5:13 & 14 confirms this is so. There is absolutely NO DISTINCTION made in the text between the "Blessing and honor and glory and power" which the One on the throne receives and that which is given to the Lamb. And what do the 24 elders do in verse 14 ? They fall down and WORSHIP.

John 20:28 - Thomas addresses the risen Lord Jesus as (literally in the Greek) "The Lord of me and THE God of me" (the definite article is present here).

Matthew 28:19 -

"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name (Gr. "onomah") of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit".

Please note - "Name" is SINGULAR. Onomah means "authority / character". This authority / character is SHARED. If the Holy Spirit is merely an impersonal, "active force" like electricity or radio waves (as the WT teach), then how can He possess character ?

The Holy Spirit can be grieved (Ephesians 4:30). Can an impersonal, "active force" experience such an EMOTION ?

Acts 13:2 -

"As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, 'Now separate TO ME Barnabas and Saul for the work to which - please note - I have called them.'" (caps for emphasis, insert mine).

Who raised Jesus from the dead ?

Speaking of the temple of His body, Jesus replied to the Jews who requested a sign from Him -

"Destroy this temple, and in three days - mark this - I will raise it up." (John 2:19, insert mine).

Galatians 1:1 -

"...God the Father who raised (Jesus) from the dead"

???????????????????????????????????

How about Genesis 1:26 ?

"Then God ("elohim" - a word which is PLURAL in nature, correct ?) said, 'Let US make man in OUR image, according to OUR likeness" (insert & caps mine).

Verse 27 continues, "So God created man in HIS OWN IMAGE; IN THE IMAGE OF GOD HE CREATED HIM" (caps for emphasis).

Interestingly, no distinction is made there between Father & Son, even though Colossians 1:16 says that ALL things ("other" is NOT in the Greek, though inserted in the NWT) were made by Jesus.

According to the Bible, who is coming to execute judgement upon all those who do evil ?

Jude 14 says JEHOVAH (NWT).

2 Thessalonians 1:7 - 9 says JESUS (also NWT).

In regard to the verses which seem to indicate Jesus' inferiority to the Father, these can be understood when one realises that Jesus is BOTH God and man. He is the Word who became flesh and dwelt (lit. "tabernacled") among us (John 1:14). God came to earth and dwelt in a human tent, so to speak. And Jesus is STILL both God and (glorified) man in resurrection. His humanity AND deity being clearly proved by Revelation 1:17 & 18 -

"Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last" (His deity)

"I am He who lives, AND WAS DEAD, and behold, I am alive forevermore" (His humanity. Far from being transformed back into an archangel as the WT teach, He is STILL the one who was crucified for our sins, i.e. a MAN).

("For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, THE MAN Christ Jesus" (1 Timothy 2:5, caps for emphasis). The tense of the Greek in Romans 8:34 indicates that this mediatorial ministry is ONGOING. There is no archangel at the right hand of the Father.)

So, when Jesus speaks about the Father as His God, etc. He is speaking from the position of a man.

Matthew 10:18 is actually a very subtle affirmation of Jesus' deity. Think about it, if Jesus were anything other than good, what would that make Him ? Bad, right ? That would mean that He was NOT a perfect man, and therefore an unsuitable sacrifice for sin. Yet the Bible clearly states that He was WITHOUT SIN, even though He was tempted in all points (Hebrews 4:15).

The Lord Jesus often conveyed thought - provoking, challenging sentences to people in the form of a question. Matthew 22:41 - 46 is another example and - arguably - another veiled allusion by the Lord to His deity.

1 Corinthians 11:3 -

Man is the head of woman in FUNCTION. Yet in ESSENCE, they are EQUAL. Galatians 3:28 says that there is "neither male nor female" in Christ. SPIRITUALLY, they are equal. The same principle applies to Christ and the Father. There is subjection of the Son to the Father IN FUNCTION, but they are the SAME in essence. Hence, 1 Corinthians 15:28 is not a problem.

Regarding the WT "Should You Believe in the Trinity ?" publication, I would echo the comments made by Sister Sasi. It can be very revealing to read some of the quotes used in this booklet in their original context, and to also consider the theological positions of some of the writers of quotes used. The following is a helpful website -

www.bible.ca

try this link -

http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-jw-deceptions.htm

JW's, doesn't the Bible say that believer's should "Make sure of all things" (1 Thessalonians 5:21, NWT) ? Why not check out the Trinity booklet quotes IN CONTEXT for yourselves and see how highly selective (even deceptive) the WT have been in quoting various sources.

May God be gracious to JW's.

Praise the Lord!

Answer 2

I'm not a JW, but this is what I've found about it:

According to books on the history of the Roman church, Tertullian of Carthage, was the first "religious" person to use the word "trinity". The idea of the trinity put two of the most important bishops of Christianity against each other. Arius, a faithful monotheistic believer, and Alexander, still incline to his past pagan beliefs. There was no "Pope" at this time, papacy was instituted around the 500s AD. There is no historical evidence that Peter was the first pope, in fact, Jewish history books say that Peter and Andrew were killed in Jerusalem when coming out of a church meeting and that Peter was never in Rome.

The Roman Emperor Constantine the Great, as greedy and ambitious as he was and knowing that the empire was already declining, feared that the fight between Arius and Alexander could divide the empire. Constantine was a pagan, worshipper of Mithra, the sun god. The emperor was aware of the political power that Christians were developing and he also new about the financial success of the Jews. Constantine wanted both, the political power of the Christians and the money of the Jews. In 325 AD, the emperor called for a meeting that was called the Nicean Council, in which Constantine himself imposed the trinity doctrine, and declared Christianity the official religion of Rome. Arius was condemned for his opposition to the trinity doctrine and was sent to exile. Today even history books in schools teach that Constantine was the first Christian Emperor of Rome, when the truth is that he was a pagan all his life and converted into Christianity in his deathbed.

Answer 3

Because adopting a egyption cult god and calling it Jesus is unChristian.

Search: Athanasius Pagan Trinity


>that Father, Son & Holy Spirit are God. Three DISTINCT, but NOT SEPARATE "persons".

If they are NOT separate then Jesus should know EVERYTHING his father's knows. But he does not.

Mar 13:32 But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

>"First and the Last" is by nature a UNIQUE title.

Kings on Earth and in Heaven are called First and last.

1Ch 29:29 Now the acts of David the king, first and last
2Ch 9:29 Now the rest of the acts of Solomon, first and last
2Ch 12:15 Now the acts of Rehoboam, first and last
2Ch 16:11 And, behold, the acts of Asa, first and last
2Ch 20:34 Now the rest of the acts of Jehoshaphat, first and last
2Ch 25:26 Now the rest of the acts of Amaziah, first and last
2Ch 26:22 Now the rest of the acts of Uzziah, first and last
2Ch 35:27 And his deeds, first and last

Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book

Jehovah wrote the book Revelation. The book is ABOUT Jesus becoming king.

Rev 1:1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, WHICH JEHOVAH GOD GAVE HIM to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John

>There is absolutely NO DISTINCTION made in the text between the "Blessing and honor and glory and power.

Incorrect.

If Jesus is a separate being from the father but still the same God. Then Jesus does not need power because he
is already God, he should already have it.

Dan 2:37 Thou, O king, [art] a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath "GIVEN" thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.

>If the Word (Jesus) is only a created being (albeit the highest created being) then surely the title of "The Second and the Last" would be more appropriate ?

incorrect. If the first and last meant Jesus creation then yes. BUT it instead is talking about Jesus is the first and last to be resurrected and brought to Heaven.

Rev 2:8 These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

John 3:13 "No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man."

>wouldn't a more appropriate title for Him be "The BETA and the Omega" ?

No. he has already been given correct titles for dieing for mankind. ONLY the Angel of Jehovah who relays the Revelation about Jesus does he say "Alpha and Omega".

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. (Only the father is called Almighty)

REPLY John 20:28 - Jesus is a "god" (small "g") after he died. Return to being a spirit creature.

1 Corinthians 8:4-6) There is no God but one. For even though there are those who are called "gods," whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many "gods" and many "lords," there is actually to us one God the Father.

REPLY Matthew 28:19 - Look at Genesis 48:16. Would you suggest that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were all the same person? Did Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Ephraim, and Manasseh constitute some kind of five-way "Quinity"?

(Genesis 48:16) And let my name [singular] be called upon them [plural] and the NAME [SINGULAR] of my fathers, Abraham and Isaac [plural]

>There is absolutely NO DISTINCTION made in the text between the "Blessing and honor and glory and power" which the One on the throne receives and that which is given to the Lamb.

Carl proves here that there is no Trinity. If Jesus is always God then power, glory, honor, and blessing he should ALWAYS have. GOD always have power so Jesus is not God.

Rev 5:12 Saying with a loud voice, WORTHY is the Lamb that was slain to RECEIVE power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

Answer 4

I am not a JW...just wanted to point out in response to their reasoning from what the Watchtower said, not from their own thoughts, they say that there is no biblical proof of a plural "godhead".

Why then does the bible clearly show that the ONE true God, YHWH = Elohim; a plural God? And the NWT itself also says in 1 John 5 that there are THREE in agreement. If the Holy Spirit is "just a force", than this statement would only refer to TWO in agreement.

Further, the term Godhead is used in Acts 17:29, Romans 1:20, Colossians 2:9 in KJV. Stongs Dictionary, which they quote consistently, takes the 3 instances of #s 2304, 2305, and 2320 and says they are defined as From theios; divinity - godhead.

A prayer to Our Father, asks Him to send His Holy Spirit to help us, through the help of His Son, Jesus Christ.

We are baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

Why would be asked to do such a thing if the three are not equally important?

Is it not obvious that the three are a team?

And they are all TRUTH...there is only ONE true God, hence they are all ONE.

I think that often times JWs forget that when we say Jesus is God, we mean He is BOTH the Son AND the Father at the same time... they fight the Deity of Christ by saying "Jesus prays to his father, can you pray to yourself?" Well, I can't, but I'm not God!!! I also cannot become pregnant without a man, but God made this possible for Mary. I also cannot create a planet, a universe, animals, plants, and humans - But GOD CAN DO ANYTHING!!!

Back to the question about Jesus praying to himself... he wasn't! He was praying to His Father! The trinity means that all three are SEPARATE while at the same time ALSO being the ONE true Almighty God.

****So bible verses that show the separateness of Jesus from the Father, do NOT disprove the reality of the Trinity even a little. ****

Answer 5

Because the word "trinity" is man made and no where in your Bible. I'm not a Jehovah's Witness, but I am a servant of the Lord Jesus.
Even JW's belive the verses in the Bible that people use to make up the so called trinity, but they refuse to add to the Word of God and with good reason. Look up Proverbs 30:5-6 in your own Bible. Look up 1 Corinthians 4:6-7. Trinity is man made, and why do we use it? To keep us separated from other Christians. My denomination uses the word trinity. I know what they are talking about, but I don't agree with it and neither should you.

Alan www.thehealingbook.com

Answer 6

I am not a Jehovah's Witness, but I must ask you to quote the scripture that refers to the Trinity? Where is that scripture found in the Bible? Everything relative to man is clearly defined in the Bible. Where does it discuss the Trinity?

Answer 7

Is the trinity taught in the bible? Yes.

Harper’s Bible Dictionary

Baal / Bel ,

translates into English as Lord
offspring of El, (Hebrew for God)
worshiped as a triad / trinity.

Where did I hear this teaching recently?

Sounds like a teaching of Satan, What do you think?

Who is fulfilling this prophecy?

(Jeremiah 23:27) 27 They are thinking of making my people forget my name by means of their dreams that they keep relating each one to the other, just as their fathers forgot my name by means of Ba´al.

Jehovah is never referred to as belonging to a trinity.

Plato taught trinities.

Jesus taught to worship his God. Rev 3:12

John taught us to worship the God of Jesus. Rev 1:5,6

Peter taught us to worship the God and Father of Jesus
1 Pet 1:3

Paul taught us to worship the God and Father of Jesus.
Rom 15:5,6

Even the Catholic Bible NAB in it's footnotes teaches that John 1:1 God(2) is a quality and not an identification.


John is not saying that the Word is God but that the Word is like God or God like or a god.

2 Cor 4:4 says if you believe Jesus is more or less than an image of God, then you are being blinded by Satan.

edit:

Hi Carl,

You made some interesting points and unfortunately I can't answer them all right now.

Let me touch on just one point concerning your 'interpetation'.

"First and Last" must be taken into context.

Jesus is First (not second) to be resurrected from the dead to heavenly life.

Jesus is the First to resurrected solely by God.

Jesus is Last (the only one to resurrected solely by Jehovah) in that after Jesus was resurrected, then he was now able to fulfill his God given assignment of resurrecting faithful Christians.

Jehovah is First and Last in the context of being the only true God.

Jehovah is First and Last in that he had no beginning and no end.

Jesus as a created being had a beginning.

As to unique, Anointed Christians are called 'First fruits'

Jesus is called Firstborn.

When Jesus was asked what was the first and greatest commandment he didn't quote the 1st commandment of the 10 Words, nor did he quote the 1st in the list of order.

He said You must love Jehovah your God.

Answer 8

Reference has been made to the JW booklet "Should You Believe In The Trinity", and anyone reading this could easily be persuaded that the JWs have good reasons for denying this doctrine - if they don't bother to check the sources quoted, that is. For example, when quoting the New Catholic Encyclopedia, the Watchtower Society links the Trinity with calling Mary 'the mother of God' and Mary being a 'Mediatrix'. People who do not know better would think that RC teaching that Mary is God's mother and a mediatrix was part of Trinity teaching. It isn't. The WtSoc has not misrepresented Catholicism, but HAS misrepresented the Trinity. Hislop's "The Two Babylons" was written to expose Catholic distortions about the Trinity and thus protect the Christian doctrine from charges of paganism but JWs naievely think it disproves the Trinity, full stop!

The WtSoc partially quotes from the Ante-Nicene Fathers to infer that they did not support the Trinity; that it "was unknown throughout biblical times and for several centuries thereafter" (p7 Trinity booklet). When the ancient writings are checked out, it is seen that they DID support the Trinity! But the WtSoc doesn't give proper sources for their partial quotes. The only mention is of one book by an Alvan Lamson, DD, who seems to support their anti-Trinitarian bias. (15 Oct 1978 Watchtower p32 + Trinity booklet). Although WtSoc HQ have a copy in their library, they have never given sufficient details for their members to check the quotes out. They don't even give page number references. This is always an indication that somebody might be trying to hide something. Scholars who have nothing to fear state their source material so that their quotes can be seen to be in context and not cobbled to misrepresent or malign the author of the quotes.

Clergymen are mocked in the Trinity booklet. On p4 they are called 'confused' with 6 quotes given as 'proof' then 1 Cor 13:33 used to infer that as God is not a God of confusion, these clergymen and the Trinity doctrine cannot be of God. Yet on p31 the WtSoc says, "And the Trinity doctrine also serves the interests of clergymen who want to maintain their hold on people, for they make it appear as though only theologians can understand it." Well, which is it to be? Clergymen who are confused and cannot explain it clearly, or clergymen who want to control people by their impressive grasp of the doctrine? The WtSoc cannot have it both ways! Actually, the question of who wants to control whom would be better addressed to WtSoc leaders who claim that to disobey them is to disobey God; that to criticise them is to criticise God; that to gain knowledge that leads to eternal life, people have to come to them to be spiritually fed. They are confused, for they wrongly say the Trinity teaches 1+1+1=1, when it's really saying 1x1x1=1. They fail to acknowledge the difference between 'being' (what makes something WHAT it is) and 'person' (what makes someone WHO he is). This leads them to think the Trinity says Jesus is the Father, when it says no such thing. Trinitarians AGREE with JWs on the distinct identities of the Son and the Father. JW determination to argue this point proves they do not know what the Trinity doctrine teaches. JWs believe that God's 'being' is held by only ONE Person, the Father (a typical form of Unitarianism). Trinitarianism insists that the one 'being' of God is shared by THREE Persons. Until JWs understand the doctrine they are condemning, their arguments will remain full of holes.

Answer 9

American Beauty, Read 1 John 5.(Just because the word Trinity is not found in the Bible does not mean the concept is not taught). There are many other verses.

Answer 10

You should have a look at the book "Exposing Should you believe in the trinity" by Angel Arellano. This is a book that analyzes the quotes from the Watchtower in their book. Suffice to say that they haven't quoted accurately one quote in that book!