Sin isn't inherently bad or God is powerless in some respects.?

Question

This is an argument where the conclusion, dependent on how you answer, shows that good and evil do not have inherently good and bad properties or that some things are out of God's hands.
1. For the sake of argument lets says that God suddenly says that murder is good.
2. For murder to be good ,according to Christian tradition, then it has to have good consequences or else there would be things of God that are either bad or neutral.
3. There are only 2 ways, unless you can think of another, that this consequence can come into being. A. God has to physically remake the universe in some way in order for murder to have good consequences, since currently murder has bad consequences. Or B. Good, automatically remakes the universe.

If A. Then good and bad do not have inherently good or bad consequences, just because God says that they are good and bad. If B. Then the remaking of the universe according to this scenario is outside of God's hands.

I ran out of space. In reference to B. You can make the argument that since God says that it is good, then that causes the remaking the world according to him. I say to that...

For B. I could say that I throw a ball and it drops back to the ground. It isn't me that caused the ball to drop but gravity or else I could just wish back up into the air. I started the sequence of events but have no control over the consequences after.

But evil is whatever God says it is. He can certainly change his mind if he wants to.

The premise of my argument is, according to Christian teachings, certainly possible. Either God can make murder good or he can't it is as simple as that.

And still no one who even remotely comes close to giving a counter-argument. Not even real reasons why my argument is false, just personal attacks.

Answer 1

Yes and no...

Is God evil?
Based on Christian teaching, God IS who IS. He IS Existence. Everything that has life, all holyness comes from Him. Since existence of itself is a good thing, God must be Good and can only be good. Everything that comes from God (its existance), then, must be good.

Since existance (God) itself cannot sin or offend itself, God cannot sin. However, anything that goes against His existance or defies His existance, sins because it goes against Goodness and Holyness itself.

God's Commandments aren't random "rules" made up. God isn't random.

You have to be cautious when reading the stories in the Old Testament. There is a lot of imagery and idioms used (i.e I am so hungry, I could eat a horse, it's raining cats and dogs, I've been sitting here for 20 million hours...) Adam and Eve "ate of the fruit which was forbidden." Fruit is a product of something that is cultivated. Good fruit comes from a tree that is well cared for. Bad fruit comes from a tree that is infested, not cared for, etc. Adam and Eve "eating the fruit" is symbolic of their choice of choosing something that came from a sourse other than what was good. They chose against existence - they sinned. Sin has consequences. Why do you punish a child for lying? So he doesn't grow up to be a liar. If their were no consequences, then no good could come after making a bad choice. Satan's sin was different - He knew God in His full Glory. His choice was complete and utter refusal of all that is good. He chose his own demise. Adam and Eve were, thankfully, a little more ignorant.

The Commandments that were given to Moses were not just random "rules" to live by. They all promote our actions towards Goodness who is God.
1. Thou shall only have one God.
- Well, God IS, so turning against Him would be defying that which is Good/Existance/Life/God.
2. Do not speak profanity against God
- Kind of goes along with the first one - if you speak against Him, then you turn away from Him.
3. Keep holy the Sabbath
- This is an interesting one, because one could argue why there is only one day a week set aside for the Glory of God? Doesn't this seem like a random rule? However, God knows us best and knows we need rest and a day set aside. We get so busy in our lives that if we didn't have a set day, we most likely would get so caught up with ourselves that we would forget about Him entirely and turn against Him and thus cause our own demise and suffering...

(I'm not going to go through the entire list of 10 Commandments here, but you get my drift...)

So, the realy question I think you are asking is "why is their punishment for those who go against God?"
We don't understand God in His full Glory. Anything that goes against something that is so purely Good is vile. Evil is the antithesis to Goodness, so all suffering is a result of ones defying goodness. The suffering is created from the evil itself. God does not create the evil or the suffering. It is a result and a choice made by the person.

We think to ourselves, "well, I am pretty good..." Statements like that come from not really knowing what Goodness truly is. God is so Good and so merciful that He is willing to give us chance after chance to come to Him so that we do not send ourselves into the abyss, which is hell.

As an analogy, take someone who gets addicted to drugs, it starts out as only "a little pot can't hurt" and years later, they are on the streets, addicted to heroine and completely miserable and suffering. Who created their suffering? There are many reasons and influences along their path, but ultimately, it was their choices that caused their suffering. (Now, please understand, I am trying to make a analogy, albeit a weak one, about sending ourselves to hell - I am not trying to make a comment about suffering here on earth that is unavoidable or being unsympathetic to people who fall under the influence of drugs)

If God were truly evil or vindictive, He wouldn't have told us about hell or sin at all. Wouldn't that be a surprise in the end?!
But being Just, He gives it to us plain and simple and even comes down here Himself.

When we sin, as we ALL do every day, we are little by little, choosing a life away from Goodness. But God is so Good and Merciful, He forgives us and gives us an infinite number of chances to change because He wants our Goodness more than we do.


*Added note - I posted already and realized I didn't address murder, which was in the original question...

Murder, obviously ends creatition, it ends earthy existance and ends the earthy life of a creation that came from Goodness, therefore, it is a sin - again, not a random rule - thou shall not kill...
However, the translation of the word is actually, thou shall not "murder." One can kill without murdering - i.e. an accident, or self defense, etc.
Sorry I forgot to address that the first time..

Answer 2

Murder does have good consequences sometimes. The mafia murder their enemies quite consistently. Gangs do the same thing. It eliminates problem people and makes life easier for some. Strippers and porn stars sometimes make millions from what they do. Good or bad consequences do not determine right from wrong. The Word of God determines right from wrong. The Bible says somewhere, although I don't have time to find it right now because I'm leaving soon, that God does not change. That's referring to His character, which would include His moral laws. God does give us choices but He is ultimately in control. You can't reconcile those two facts and that is part of why we worship God; because He is superior to us and our intellect.

Answer 3

1. For the sake of argument lets says that God suddenly says that murder is good.
This is impossible. God is good and fills all space. Where is a place in good, God, where sin is now good? No place. As long as we believe in sin, our backs are to Him, and therefore we seem to believe in the impossible as being real. God's laws are eternal and self-enforcing.

Answer 4

Your argument overcomplicates things in attempt to decieve. (Not to mention using the example of "Let's say that God suddenly says murder is good" isn't the best setup) - it's simple- sin is described in the bible as transgression of the law of God and rebellion against God. God is good, sin is evil. Sin is always bad.

Answer 5

In the words of Wesley, in "The Princess Bride", truly, you have a dizzying intellect!

Things are bad because of the consequences they produce. Murder is bad because it hampers the success of a civilisation. It is contrary to the success of a society. Period. It's not an arbitrary decision by some god, but a fact of existence.

Answer 6

look at it this way..... christianity if founded on the principles of murdering it's opponents... it creates inequality in humanity... Armageddon is the end of religion on earth... it is the christians that say Armageddon is a bad thing. in mother nature murder is bad... so we have yet to experience on earth murder being bad.... but she is gaining ground.... at least the christians no longer have the power to just murder us without consequences these days....

Answer 7

You are definately not proficient in logic to start your argument out with a grand supposition. Your flaw in your argument is in the premise. You need to reboot and rethink your life.

Answer 8

Sin is Mans punishment for letting it
loose on the Earth

God will have the final say on it's end.

Answer 9

Murder is always intrinsically evil. Because the the ground of existence cannot change, that ground is God.

God does not change, we do.

Answer 10

If murder was good, i would be the first one to kill u for writing this piece of crap!