One for the Catholics: why call priests father, and pray through saints, when the Bible forbids it?

Question

Matthew 23:9
And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Answer 1

Right on - Lazarus. Great question. Why? On what scriptures do they stand?

Not only that, why do they have statues and paintings of Jesus when no one knows what he looked like? In fact, Jesus, a devout Jew, likely did NOT have hair down to his shoulders and likely had little pigtails, one on each side towards the front.

Jesus also told the disciples that they should NOT pray TO him after the resurrection but pray to the Father in His name. Many Christian churches allow this as well.

Few Christians actually study the Word for themselves. It's easier to accept teachings of so-called spiritual authorities. How sad.
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Jim DeSantis has Associate Degrees in Pastoral Counseling and Christian Theology and writes about spiritual matters at http://on-line-tribune-spiritual-matters.blogspot.com/

Answer 2

Others already brought up 1 Corinthians 4:15. I would also note Acts 7:2, where Stephen calls other men "father", or Acts 22:1, where Paul does the same. Surely Paul and Stephen were in a better place to interpret Jesus' words than you are (and that is important, as it gets into issues of church authority).

The passage, however, that is the most blatantly relevant (yet nobody seems to cite it) is 1 Timothy 5:1-2. It provides the structure that we find in the Catholic Church today, with father priests, brother monks, mother superiors, and sister nuns. Furthermore, note that the Catholic Church did not start with some English translation of the Bible; rather it began with the Greek text of the New Testament. This is relevant, because when you read 1 Timothy 5:1 in Greek has the word presbytero (literally, presbyter, which is what a priest is called in the Catholic Church). A literal reading of the Greek text has the command to address a presbyter as a father.

So, in light of 1 Timothy 5:1, why have Catholics (and the Orthodox!) called priests "father" for nearly 2000 years? Because the Bible commands them to do so.

Answer 3

yawn.......


Protestants being thus impious enough to make liars of Jesus Christ, of the Holy Ghost, and of the Apostles, need we wonder if they continually slander Catholics, telling and believing worse absurdities about them than the heathens did? What is more absurd than to preach that Catholics worship stocks and stones for gods; set up pictures of Jesus Christ, of the Blessed Virgin Mary, and other saints, to pray to them, and put their confidence in them; that they adore a god of bread and wine; that their sins are forgiven by the priest, without repentance and amendment of life; that the pope or any other person can give leave to commit sin, or that for a sum of money the forgiveness of sins can be obtained ? To these and similar absurdities and slanders, we simply answer: "Cursed is he who believes in such absurdities and falsehoods, with which Protestants impiously charge the children of the Catholic Church. All those grievous transgressions are another source of their reprobation."

Answer 4

The pharisees criticized Jesus for claiming to forgive sins(Mark2:3-7) The book 'The Catholic Priest', p.78-79 says, "You will find but one created being who can forgive the sinner...that extraordinary being is the priest." Yet the Bible is very clear in 1Timothy2:5"One mediator between God and men, that is Christ Jesus." In the heart of the 10 commandments we find the answer to this question. I. Thou shalt have no other Gods before me, and only Him shalt thou observe. II. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image. 1John5:21"Little children, keep yourselves from idols" III. ...1Tim.6:1"that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed" IV. Keep the Sabbath Holy
In the book 'Dignity and Duties of the Priest' p.27 handbook for priests by Alphonsus de Liguori: "God himself is obliged to abide by the judgment of his priests and either or not to pardon, according as they refuse or give absolution... The sentence of the priest precedes and God subscribes to it."
And just to give you a little more information: James Cardinal Gibbons, Scolar who wrote 'The Faith of our Fathers' p.89 wrote " You may read the bible from genesis to revelations, and you will find not a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday". 'The Catholic Record' written 9/1/23 says:"Sunday is our mark of authority... the church is above the bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact." But the Bible says, "remember the sabbath and keep it holy" WILL WE DO WHAT GOD SAYS OR WHAT RELIGIOUS LEADERS TEACH CONTRARY TO THE WORD OF GOD.

Answer 5

I'm not knowledgeable enough to address the concept of "father", but I think it obvious enough that if we are to respect our mother or our father, that they should retain such a title. If you are to take this scripture literally, then one shouldn't even consider calling a male parent "father". I'd need to do a bit more study on that particular verse.

As to mediators, you misunderstand the point of praying to saints. Do you not ever ask other people to pray on your behalf? Do you not have intercessory prayer? That is all that Catholics are doing. They are asking saints to pray for them, and that is nowhere forbidden in the Bible. If you disagree, then please show me where in the Bible it says that we are not to pray for each other. This isn't mediation, but prayer.

Answer 6

We call our priests "fathers" to give respect to them, just like giving titles to those who specialize a subject, e.g. Doctor (PhD). In our case, our fathers are those who specialize the Bible and Tradition (these two go hand in hand, one cannot separate from the other), and therefore earns respect from us lay men.

However, the title "father" does not earn them a divine status, nor a mediator. They are human, just like us, and also commits mistakes. The mediator is only Christ.

Will you not call your male biological parent your "father"? The same concept really... This is not a contradiction of the Bible, but rather a different interpretation of the said verse.

We do not pray to saints! =) We venerate them, as we place them as our models. Moreso with the Virgin Mother, we venerate her, but not worship her.

Answer 7

In the context, the forbidding of calling men "father" refers strictly to the lording over people and calling a lot of attention to yourself. It doesn't refer to the Christian practice. That wouldn't have meant anything to the audience, because Christ hadn't inaugurated the Church yet.

Then there's the fact that Paul called "Timothy" his son (I TIm. 1.18). Do sons not have "fathers?" Does this not imply the converse? When Paul talks about "our fathers" in I Cor. 10.1, is he violating Christ's edict? Did he violate it when he told the Corinthians that "I became your father" in I Cor. 4.15? I think not.

Still more, do we not talk about "Founding Fathers" and "Church Fathers?" More gravely still, what do you call your father? He is, after all, your dad, and if you interpret this as completely forbidding us to call men "father," then most children in the world are in grave sin.

Nobody calls the saints our mediators. They are intercessors. That refers to the divine incarnation of God. Again, do you ask people to pray for you? If so, it's the same thing. If not, you have more problems with us than these. If you do ask others for intercession, then the only real difference is that we believe in the resurrection as a reality we can touch. For you it must be only an abstraction and some vague hope.

Our differences lie in interpretation. You see, we think the most important thing in Jesus' statement isn't treating His phrase "call no man father" in a strict, legalistic way that nobody follows (again, what do you call your dad?). He was rebuking the pharisees for their legalism, showiness, and pride. Which is more a sin of pride, to submit to your priest, follow his advice, and to call him "father" or to condemn other men for using the term "father," while calling your own father some variation of it (or refusing to address him respectfully if you don't )? Surely Christ condemned legalism more than He would condemn this. You have fallen into the trap of the pharisees. You have attempted to bind a load on someone else which you do not try to bear, or if you do, then by your tradition you make void the Law of God by refusing to honor your father (for whom, it is not respectful to refuse him his title).

On the other, Christ promised that nobody who believed in Him would perish, but have everlasting life (Jn. 3.16). Is God not the God of the living and not the dead? St. Paul said that "neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Rom. 8.38-39), but you are claiming that we are separated by death and that these people cannot pray for us. If you don't claim that, then you are claiming that the prayer of a righteous man doesn't avail much (Jam. 5.16).

In both cases, your position runs afoul the word of God and transforms the Gospel into another Gospel (Gal. 1.6-8). I stand with Christ, and His revealed truth in His Tradition. You may stand with the reformers and other creators of traditions of men, but you stand outside of biblical Christianity with your assertions.

Answer 8

You are not suposed to call anyone your spiritual leader or call them your spiritual Father on the earth because Jesus is supposed to be head of the true christian congregation.

It is in a spiritual sense that you are not to call a man Father.

Answer 9

+ Call no man father +

Matthew 23:6-9 reads, "They love places of honor at banquets, seats of honor in synagogues, greetings in marketplaces, and the salutation 'Rabbi.' As for you, do not be called 'Rabbi.' You have but one teacher, and you are all brothers. Call no one on earth your father; you have but one Father in heaven."

Are we also not to call anyone "teacher" or "doctor" which is how "rabbi' would translate? I think not.

This is call for humility for those in leadership roles. Not to be taken literally.

We are not to deny our male parent and cut the Commandment to honor our father and mother in half.

Some leaders in any church may fall into the same folly of a lack of humility as the pharisees of Jesus' day.

+ Saints +

Saints are not mediators between God and us, they are intersessors. Just like any of us can pray for each other in intersession.

The Bible does not forbid requesting anyone to pray for us.

Before Jesus Christ died for our sins and opened the gates of heaven there were no saints in heaven. Therefore there are no Old Testament writings that would mention them.

Very few of the new Christians died before most of the New Testament was written. Therefore there is little in the Bible about asking saints to pray for us.

However the last book of the Bible does talk about the saints in heaven praying.

Revelation 5:8: Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones.

Revelation 8:3-4: He was given a great quantity of incense to offer, along with the prayers of all the holy ones, on the gold altar that was before the throne. The smoke of the incense along with the prayers of the holy ones went up before God from the hand of the angel.

The Holy Spirit guided the early Church in many things not explained in the Bible including how does the Body of Christ (believers) living on Earth relate to the Body of Christ (saints) living in heaven. We are still one Body.

Catholics share the belief in the Communion of Saints with many other Christians, including the Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, Episcopal, and Methodist Churches.

The Communion of Saints is the belief where all saints are intimately related in the Body of Christ, a family. When you die and go to heaven, you do not leave this family.

Everyone in heaven or on their way to heaven are saints, you, me, my deceased grandmother, Mary the mother of Jesus, Mother Teresa and Pope John Paul II.

As part of this family, you may ask your family and friends living here on earth to pray for you. Or, you may also ask the Blessed Virgin Mary, Saint Andrew, or your deceased grandmother living in heaven to pray for you.

Prayer to saints in heaven is simple communication, not worship.

And prayer to the saints is optional not required.

http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt3art9p5.htm#946

+ With love in Christ.

Answer 10

They are our spiritual fathers, like St. Paul, who wrote, "For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel." (1 Corinthians 4:15)

We ask the saints to pray for us because the Bible instructs us to "pray for one another." (James 5:16)