Are The Ten Commandments Good Because God Said So Or Because They Are Good Laws Regardless?

Question

In other words, if the laws are good because God said they were (implying good is arbitrary soley based on God's choice), then God could have easily comanded us to kill freely. These 'bad' laws, by definition as directed by God, would in turn be good laws.

If one takes the position that killing freeing is not a good law, than one must assume that the Ten Commandments possess greater goodness independent of God's opinion.

My question is this: Since God is by definition omnipotent and omniscient, how could either of these chioces be correct? Can a paradox exist for God?

PLEASE BE SPECIFIC

SOHNCONDUIT: *Hysterical Laughing* This has got to be the funniest answer I’ve read in a long time. My mother gives these complexity science seminars for hospital and nurse management. I just visualized her assessing God’s management style. Well you see God, you “took the lazy way out by giving direction in terms of a majority of constraints "Thou shalt not..." as opposed to empowerment ie: Thou shall hold life to be precious and support and maintain it at all costs.” I guess the hospital union would have gone into double-overtime if all the managers had to train new employees themselves—but it’s all about the people!

DAVIDM: No, I do not think they are good...nor do I think they are bad. They are merely words deliberately strung together to achieve a desired result.

BEANO: I never said it couldn’t be both...and even if I did—who am I? That is actually an interesting thought you proposed.

J.: I’ve actually never picked up a bible before, but to the best of my very limited knowledge, I was not aware that there was only one right interpretation.

DANNY_BOY_JONES: Perhaps I was creating artificial limits. I did not have the insight to see it otherwise; your third paragraph was helpful in this respect.

APOSTLE JEFF: May your strength, love and perseverance serve your newly reunited family well. I wish you the very best years to come.

FRED: Perhaps I was brainwashed...I actually called myself an Atheist yesterday. Thank you for reestablishing my beliefs that I am ‘undefined’—not to be confused with ‘undecided’.

PIP: You make an excellent point!

DELUX VERSION: This is a fine place to be..."I am more confused now than I was in the beginning. I would love to go back to just having faith and letting go, but, I think God gave me the intellect I have and would be a bit ticked off if I didn't question some inaccuracies."

LORD Z: Admitting, I know little about religion. Although it appears one needs to know something, to question it. Nevertheless, I ask this question, because I’m fascinated by the transformation of ideas into vital conclusions.

I’m familiar with Pascal’s Wager (ie PD), but not the limitations imposed by the assumption, “that people know who God is.” Moreover, your statement “creation is change” is most fascinating! I’m interested to learn how you came to such conclusion.

If God is the Creator...and creation is change...would God too change over time? Assuming so, and that the Ten Commandments were of God—this would still not absolve His law of scrutiny, for the laws ascribed in stone may not be the 'evolved laws'.

I always heard God was good. Your reasoning is much more sensible...and it is rather conflicting to believe otherwise and still see God as omnipotent and omniscient. This justifies the flaws in system and design, but posses further questions...another day perhaps.

Answer 1

Have you ever noticed that the word good and god are strikingly similar? Interesting.

This is one of those sections of Yahoo I dread entering because people feel so strongly about those things they have been raised believing in like religion.

That being said, the Ten Commandments are only good because they are the word of God. Their authority comes form God and the punishment for transgressing those Commandments is left up to God.

Your question seems to imply that our judgment in anyway matters. It only matters to us; but, if God exists then it matters not. His judgment will supercede ours and we will pay the forfeit. It's a Sartre dilemma, or the prisoner's dilemma, as it is also referred to. There is a 75% chance that it is better to assume God exists and these are laws He expects you to follow, while there is only a 25% chance that these are laws some hebrew man carved in a pair of stone tablets and people have just been following them because they agreed with what the tablets said. So, the risk adverse man would say it is prudent to believe that God wrote these Commandments and they are therefore good.

But like I said your question implies that our judgment matters and that is significant in that there is more than one God. Sartre screwed up in assuming that people know who God is. Is God, the God of Abraham, the God of Moses, the God of Jesus? Is God Allah, or Buddah, or Kali? Pick the wrong God and you have a 100% chance that you will be judged harshly and pick no God and you have a 100% chance that you will be judged harsly. If sarte had really thought it out you have about a one in twentyfive chance of picking the right God, so you have a 99% chance in offending God and a 99% chance that there is no God.

So why do you get to choose?

That is always the question that messes with people. If God is all knowing and all powerful and everywhere then why doesn't He make the choice for us? Why do we have to do anything? Why don't we just get to walk around all naked and stupid and believing that things will all work out because God is good and we are created in His image? Why did we eat that forbidden fruit?

I think it comes down to change.

Creation is change. If God had just wanted things to stay the same, we wouldn't be asking such questions. We wouldn't exist. We wouldn't have the whole Jorge Borges thing about am I me or am I what other people think of me? Much like God has the whole is He real or have we created God thing?

Assuming change exists then you get into the whole physics and metaphysics of things. Do things in motion tend to stay in motion until acted upon? Do ideas in motion tend to stay in motion until acted upon? Are we any closer today to understanding the significance of change that we were with Thales of Miletus fell into that well and figured out change is real?

Everything that has been created has been a change and every change effects every other change and in time one of those changes will be laws as some changes will be more favorable than others and some changes will be not favorable at all.

The Ten Commandments are not the only set of laws, not even the first set of laws, but; they are a set of laws that proclaim to be written by God. That is like saying that they are a certainty, and; all logic is based on certainty, so logically speaking; these laws are beyond scrutiny. That is of course assuming you believe they were written by God.

So we are back where I started so that is a sign that I should take you somewhere new and that is the work of Oliver Wendell Holmes as it relates to good and bad laws. Your question states that there are such things as bad laws and he would agree. What your question failed to say and I added in for you is the idea that God is omnipresent, everywhere, both good and bad, and if you read your Bibles you will be of the opinion that even in Hell God is there for you, meaning even in badness there is a fragment of good there to comfort you. Not everybody picks that one up especially since this opinion is not in all Bibles and for those that it does appear, it appears at the very end. At any rate, there could be a bad law in the Ten Commandments but that would still be up to the judge and the judge is like I said either God or us, and if it is God we lose because it clearly states there is only one God and to put ourselves above that one God is a punishable offense. So either follow those commandments or don't but don't pick and choose which ones are good and which ones are not. That would be foolish.

I don't know if any of this helped you out but if it did good and if it didn't that is not bad either. Enjoy figuring out what you believe and hopefully that will be right. After all, at least you have a chance.

Answer 2

No, the Ten Commandments along with the rest of the Mosaic Law are no longer in effect. The Mosaic Law set the Israelites apart from the other nations and it also served to show them they could not keep it perfectly which is why they needed the Messiah to come-Galatians 3:23-25 Jesus did not come to destroy the law or call it bad. The Law Covenant served many useful purposes and was not bad. Jesus came to fulfill it by pointing out the differences between how the religious leaders taught it and how God meant it to be taught. And he fulfilled it by dying so it could be replaced with the new covenant or Christian law. Christ's death ended the Mosaic Law and his followers came under the new covenant or Christian law-Matthew 5:17; Hebrews 10:5-12; 8:13; Colossians 2:14 Isaiah 42:21 talks about God's provision of Jesus ransom sacrifice, which was not only loving and merciful but also showing God's justice, thus magnifying the Law. We are all given a conscience by God and we must learn to use it. Look at the scriptures I have provided you and then see how your conscience reacts to what you have learned. Also remember that if we find scriptural evidence that a personal view we had was wrong, even one backed by scriptures, we must discard such personal view in favor of what the Bible actually says.

Answer 3

My view of God is a bit different. I don't really see him as being "good". He's not "bad" either! He just is. I mean everyone says God is love, if that's so then God has allot of explaining to do about the old testament. I do see Him as omnipotent and omniscient, just not as Good or Evil. As for the Laws of the Ten Commandments, there is no telling what the original text was since it (in my studies) has changed from rewriting to rewriting. To tell you the truth I was much happier when I "didn't" study the origins and scribe involvement, in regards to the scripture. So really I am more confused now than I was in the beginning. I would love to go back to just having faith and letting go, but, I think God gave me the intellect I have and would be a bit ticked off if I didn't question some inaccuracies.

Answer 4

Yes, a paradox can certainly exist for "God" as The Creator has put into motion the very tenets that allow for a paradox to exist and is therefore responsible for said exisence. BTW, The Creator took the lazy way out by giving direction in terms of a majority of constraints "Thou shalt not..." as opposed to empowerment ie: Thou shall hold life to be precious and support and maintain it at all costs... I guess the engravers union would have gone into double-overtime if they had to carve all of those extra characters onto the two...no, better make that three tablets....

Answer 5

Okay, if you're Moses and you have thousands of people you need to keep control of, how do you do it? You go up on a "sacred" mountain, wait a while, then appear with a set of basic rules for everyone and tell them the God wrote these and you'd better tow the mark.

Laws are written by men to control other men and limit their freedoms. That doesn't mean that killing and stealing aren't universally a "bad" thing, but "good" and "bad" and "right" and "wrong" are relative concepts. Is killing in self-defense "good", is capital punishment "good". Is robbing Peter to pay Paul, "good"?

God can do whatever God wants, it's God's will. What powers do you imbue your God with? Those are the powers your God has.

Answer 6

The question of is there a universal good.... I believe the greatest argument for a universal good is that other civilizations.. some religious some not.. usually have similar laws. The laws of the world are usually similar for any given time period.. and they do change with time.. in the past it was ok to kill slaves because they weren't human.. even Christians and Muslims were ok with this.... so even though I would argue that there is a universal good.. I would also argue that our views of this good are warped by our own bias.

Answer 7

You are trying to make things that coexist, appear to be mutually exclusive, and thus you have created a circular argument. You are creating artificial limits.

Since there is only one God, he cannot be arbitrary, at least from our perspective, since he created us and all that we experience. According to Jesus, violating a single commandment is akin to violating them all. Sin separates us from God and means "missing the mark."

Besides being omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, God is absolutely faithful to himself and us. He has established many covenants with us, and has never violated them, even though we have.

He is the same then, now, and forever. He is the epitome of stability.

All of Gods commands can be summed up as follows:
Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength.
Love your neighbor as yourself.
Love one another as Jesus loved us.

An excellent synopsis of Christian love can be found in the 13th chapter of 1st Corinthians. Paradoxes can only exist in our human minds.

Gods ways are higher than our ways. His thoughts are higher than our thoughts.

God is a god of order, not disorder. May God bless you and grant you understanding as you seek these answers.

Answer 8

They are good laws regardless. The Code of Hammurabi was more detailed, but said a lot of the same.

Basically, any set of rules that prevent the root of most conflict are pretty good ones to live in a peaceful society.

Lying, stealing, or even drooling over your neighbor's spouse could all cause conflict.

Answer 9

Your logic is very good. God does indeed live by unchangeable laws... those laws are good because they are good, not because he decreed them.

He is God because he lives by those laws, not the other way around. He teaches those laws because he wants us to progress and become as advanced a spiritual being as He is. We will never approach him in the degree of light and glory that He has, because he is SO much more advanced than us, and still continues to advance in light and glory.... We can't ever catch up. But we can certainly benefit from the things he has learned, and which, in his great love, He teaches to us.

Added: Oh, the Ten Commandments are a very basic moral law. (One needs to live morally to become a being of light.) Jesus added some more laws that would lead to further light and knowledge. God just keeps on adding things that can help us progress (hence all the religions in the world).

Answer 10

It is simple a basic moral precept
The reason for these laws is for us to remain happy

The Ten Commandments state what is required in the love of God and love of neighbor. The first three concern love of God, and the other seven love of neighbor.

Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?" To the young man who asked this question, Jesus answers first by invoking the necessity to recognize God as the "One there is who is good," as the supreme Good and the source of all good. Then Jesus tells him: "If you would enter life, keep the commandments." And he cites for his questioner the precepts that concern love of neighbor: "You shall not kill, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother." Finally Jesus sums up these commandments positively: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
To this first reply Jesus adds a second: "If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me." This reply does not do away with the first: following Jesus Christ involves keeping the Commandments. The Law has not been abolished, but rather man is invited to rediscover it in the person of his Master who is its perfect fulfillment. In the three synoptic Gospels, Jesus' call to the rich young man to follow him, in the obedience of a disciple and in the observance of the Commandments, is joined to the call to poverty and chastity. The evangelical counsels are inseparable from the Commandments.
Jesus acknowledged the Ten Commandments, but he also showed the power of the Spirit at work in their letter. He preached a "righteousness [which] exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees" as well as that of the Gentiles. He unfolded all the demands of the Commandments. "You have heard that it was said to the men of old, 'You shall not kill.' . . . But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment."
When someone asks him, "Which commandment in the Law is the greatest?" Jesus replies: "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the prophets." The Decalogue must be interpreted in light of this twofold yet single commandment of love, the fullness of the Law:


The commandments: "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this sentence: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.