Do you have a "lay persons" understanding of science, and do you feel that is enough to doubt scientists?

Question

Let's be honest.... most people have a C+ high school science education, and they've forgotten much of it by age 30.

If civilization were bombed back to the stone age, maybe 1 in 10,000 could recreate a microchip, or plastic, or get Ibuprofin from a tree in the rain forest.

And if the world WAS blown back to the stone age, I don't think we would start giving scientists the third degree as to what they knew, or didn't know. Most likely we'd be thrilled that a few smart people survived, and we'd be happy just to get our light bulbs back on.

So when did you all become such experts in biology, physics, chemistry, genetics, paleontology, geology, and astronomy that you can flippantly dismiss the expertise of people who are (let's face it) light years beyond you in education, and who've often devoted the better part of their lives attempting to factually uncover the origins of humans for no greater reward than to simply advance the sum total knowledge of the human species?

What a crime!

I admit, this question is a bit of a rant against all the anti-evolutionist nonsense I've read tonight.

Vox, how do you read into these things the way you do??? Good grief, you are extra special! I never claimed to be any of the things you mentioned, nor did I claim to have degrees in the sciences. My question stands on its own merit, irregardless of my education. It says nothing about the existence of your god, and I never mentioned quantum theory. Humanist Philosophy *IS* legitimate discourse when discussing humans and human issues, and I must say that you are without a doubt the most fanatical critic I've ever had who can't stand my questions.

My diagnosis - bipolar with possible schizophrenic tendencies.

Now guess my degree.

Well, (as if we couldn't have seen this coming) my not-so-secret admirer has compared me to the Communists, and subsequently disabled his email (not surprising.) He has also revised his "about me" description so it no longer informs the world of his penchant for argumentative debate. Of course, like most cowards, he got in one final supercilious playground exchange (which I can't respond to), so I guess I lose.

Another not-so-worthy adversary bites the dust. How will I go on?

In case anyone is wondering, I won't give him best answer to get the satisfaction of knowing he's read this. With so much religious arrogance on tap, I know he'll be back, if for no other reason than to reinforce his self-indulgent righteousness. Let's see if I can coax one final indignant response :-)

Answer 1

Ha, Ha, Ha! You touched apparently a sore subject. Well, I believe in the basics of Evolution. Why fight common sense? Everyone and everything evolves.

I also believe that most ppl have a "lay persons" understanding of religion, including a good deal of these so called Ministers.

Your question of the "Ground Zero" experience was very popular back in the 70s and my Girl Scout Troop expanded beyond our basic badges to explore survivalist training, self-sufficiency and basic knowledge in event something like this did happen ... this included folk medicine & remedies, how to build a vehicle from scratch and the how to basics of computer technology. Our leader was the feminist hippy chick type.

Any body up for some Mint Cookies?

Answer 2

I'd say I agree with numbers 4 and 5 1) I really don't know enough about this topic to agree or disagree. 2) If by "the music industry," you mean major record labels, yes. The want to make money, not promote artists. 3) Just because the company creates them doesn't mean that people have to listen to them. 4 and 5 are definitely linked. Even I'm guilty of number 5. I think that rap sucks, but that's because what I hear is 50 Cent and Souljah Boy. If that's all that's out there as far as rap goes, then yeah, it sucks. I'm sure there's better stuff out there, but I'm just not digging for it. Really, there's an amazing amount of stuff out there, but you just have to know where to get it. The real problem is people don't look beyond the steady diet of crap that comes from the major labels and radio stations.

Answer 3

I'm an atheist who hardly knows anything about science. I'm more into arts, music, languages. Weirdly enough, at school I was extremely good at math, don't ask me why, it bores me as hell. I know that E equals MS square, just don't ask me what I can do with it. It doesn't interest me at all.

I did learn, however, how science works. And to me, the 'how' is more important than the 'what'. I know what methods they use, and how they come to their conclusions. I do know the meaning of a Scientific Theory. That's why I trust them.

I think nobody has the right to dismiss the expertise. Anybody can disagree, of course, but only based on examining the same facts.

Answer 4

When scientists agree completely on everything, and they can back up their beliefs with evidence, beyond a reasonable doubt, then I'll believe what they say.

As of today, that is certainly not the case, as the bulk of many of the sciences consists of largely unproven theory, based on a very limited understanding of the underlying processes.

Industrial chemicals and processes are some of the most thoroughly proven categories, but are also some of the most basic.

As for ibuprofen ... in the aftermath of a nuclear exchange, I would be quite happy if I was able to extract the much simpler and more useful, acetylsalicylic acid, from coal tar, or tree bark, or find a stockpile of it in some underground warehouse.

Answer 5

Hmmm.. well.. it does no good for Evolution's cause when a person doing research for her PhD falsifies data just to make it come out like it should.. this was a few years ago and I forget what her name or school were now (about 8 or 9 years ago) but her data keeps popping up as "proof".. something about DNA in some old bones and comparing them to human DNA.. perhaps from the person found in the ice that was actually a deformed human and probably banished from the tribe (granted it was very OLD but still human)...

"A-" average BS degree, Mathematics,Physics...

YEARS of experience in picking out flaws in reasoning by very intelligent people (whom I know personally).

EDIT for Eri: OK, I was being nice.. no.. there were DOZENS of them that I had to review for fraud.. the PhD one was the one that stuck out in my mind because I had also seen the news about them digging up the person out of the ice at the top of some mountain...

On the other side.. I would probably be able to get electricity, metals, motors, solar heating/cooling, etc.. but probably not much in the way of medicines unless there were still some libraries around that I could look up the information...

I also firmly believe that Science was created because the Priests were lying to the people and holding back information that was useful, helpful, and possibly necessary.. even if scientists don't seem to take responsibility for what they create sometimes.. or it gets misused.. I respect most Scientists because they respect the difference between a Theory and a Law and usually make it clear that they are talking about their own theories or some specific theory that they think is so close to being proven if they can get funding for items such as nuclear accelerators (we had a good one under construction here in Texas until funding was dropped)...

I am all for the advancement of Science, space exploration, etc.. but I have heard presentations by a dozen or so Evolutionists and only 2 or 3 of them stated clearly that what they were discussing was theory.. the rest talked as if what they were saying was proven fact already.. something that my mentors admonished me to avoid when giving my own presentations (in mathematics, not evolution)

Answer 6

The study of science and religion is of big difference because in religion it deals with the study of spiritual being while in science it deals with the study of scientific nature, the origin of that something which exist.

You could not only realize that the knowledge you have taken in your studies of biology,chemistry, genetics and others came from God. give you that knowledge and ability and now you are bragging too much because of your little knowledge about that something which you have learn. Remember the word that little knowledge of something is dangerous. Learn more about science and religion so you may not call yourself ignorant in religion.

It is useless to be educated in science but ignorant of the bible and religion. as well as God. You should have enough knowledge of God who is your creature.
jtm

Answer 7

You don't like my answers, so I'll try to keep it short. First, what degree do you have? What credibility do you have? Why do you constantly not get it that believers don't have a problem with legitimate science? What kind of expert are you? When did you become an "expert" in all the subjects you listed? Or is it that you don't like it when believers raise cogent and logical arguments against you atheists over evolution? You know, that , "How daaaare you?!?" tone of voice? Why do you set up these "imaginary" scenarios like the one you did and expect us to take it seriously, when you all you people do is try to denounce us for believing in what you so foolishly call an "imaginary" God and everything else about belief, faith, etc is all "imaginary"? You people take your instruction right out of humanist philosophy and try to present it as legitimate discourse, and it isn't. Not even close. I have received e-mails from some "educated" fools trying to prove to me that their "science", by default, disproves God's existence. How utterly stupid and assinine do you have to be to attempt to use a theory from quantum physics to disprove the existence of One you don't believe in anyway? Does it take a Doctorate in Philosophy to come to this sound conclusion? It's things like this that will forever cause me to ridicule and at the same time destroy these idiots positions and/or so-called "arguments".

Answer 8

No, I have more of like a kindergarten-level understanding of science. Eh, maybe not that low, but nothing above 1st grade...

Very well said, though! Some people really are experts who deserve respect from the less-educated.

Answer 9

You could blame that one the mind virus known as religion. It forces it believers to not think for themselves. That all the knowledge of world is finished and the search is over. The search for knowledge never ends. It just frustrates people when one question leads to another.

Any scienctist would say that there is so much more we DON'T know, than we do know. And that is a humbling thought.

Answer 10

Wow. Someone cheated once! All scientists are frauds - all several hundred million of them!

Sorry that was directed to the person above me.

I agree with your whole-heartedly. So many people don't realize how much of their lives is a product of science - from computers to cars to cell phones to modern medicine and the fact that a good half of them are alive today who wouldn't have been a centuary ago.