Pilots: what's the difference between pilot-in-command versus second-in-command time?

Question

I'm currently training for my instrument rating and would like to have a safety pilot to practice shooting some solo approaches. I'd also like to serve as a safety pilot myself for another pilot.

But, I read an article about safety pilots on Wikipedia, which says the safety pilot cannot log PIC time, only SIC time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safety_pilot (see the last paragraph under "Basic Principles")

...is this true? I've learned to take everything on Wikipedia with a grain of salt and this particular article may have been written by some commercial pilot who didn't know what the heck he was talking about.

I also was told by a CFI that airlines deduct SIC time during the pilot hiring process, which (if true) makes it a waste of time to serve as anybody's safety pilot, doesn't it?

Answer 1

PIC time is that time logged when one is the sole manipulator of the flight controls. The PIC is directly responsible for and the final authority in determining the airworthiness and operation of the aircraft.

SIC time is time logged when acting as a required crew member who is not PIC. Usually, to act as and log SIC time, the aircraft must be certificated for two flight crew members. However, in a single pilot aircraft during simulated IFR or if an operators certificate requires one, you may have an SIC on a single pilot aircraft. That is why sometimes a safety pilot is a SIC. FAR §91.109 says a safety pilot is a required crew member for simulated instrument flight for traffic separation while the manipulating PIC is under the hood.

Therefore, the IS A TIME when BOTH pilots may log PIC, but it depends on both the flight conditions and what the pilots agree to do beforehand. Therefore, the pilot under the hood and the pilot looking for traffic may BOTH log PIC as one is manipulator and one is responsible for the safety of flight (traffic separation).

14 cfr 61.51(e)(1) says “... a recreational, private, or commercial pilot may log pilot in command time only for that flight time during which that person is —
(i) The sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated; or
(ii) Except for a recreational pilot, when acting as a pilot in command of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is conducted.”

14 cfr 61.51(f)(2) says that a person may log second-in-command flight time only for that flight time for which that person “... holds the appropriate category, class, and instrument rating (if an instrument rating is required for the flight) for the aircraft being flown, and more than one pilot is required under ... the regulations under which the flight is being conducted.”

14 cfr 91.3(a) says, “The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.”

14 cfr 91.109(b)(1) says, “No person may operate a civil aircraft in simulated instrument flight unless the other control seat is occupied by a safety pilot who possesses at least a private pilot certificate with category and class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown.”

Logging PIC is not always the same as acting a PIC: there always is someone responsible for the flight (the actual PIC) but more than one person may log PIC time under the regs.

A case in point, you can log PIC when you're receiving flight instruction but your logbook would have entries both in the “PIC” and “Dual Received” columns, while the CFI also logs PIC.


Clear as mud?

Read this helpful article on the subject by Rod Machado-
http://www.rodmachado.com/Articles/Logging_Flight_Time.htm

As as far as having SIC deducted, that would depend entirely on the airline. Most safety pilot time is not logged as SIC per the explanation above. When I was doing my multi time building to meet airline minimums, I participated in a program where two pilots traded off safety pilot time while doing IFR approaches in and around Los Angeles. We both logged 100 hours PIC ME each (plus our hood time as sim IFR) time for all our flights. We did not log SIC ever.

Answer 2

there is little or no difference for pilots of extensive jets. the two jobs have the comparable journey standards. additionally, having the duty of passengers on board would not truly make issues lots distinctive from the perspective of the pilots. very few hassle approximately having the lives of the passengers of their hands different than attempting to maintain the flight somewhat greater mushy for them. relating to the only difference between a passenger airline and a freight airline is that freight pilots are greater probable to artwork in the process the night. additionally they do no longer ought to hassle approximately finding their superb and protecting a grin pasted on their face whilst interacting with passengers. bins are indifferent approximately that.

Answer 3

"Obsever" pilots can't log PIC OR SIC. The time is worthless, unless the aircraft requires a second pilot by definition of PPC/PCC which requires two pilots.

Answer 4

Av8trxx is precisely on point with her answer. When you have a question regarding what can and cannot be done, follow her example by going not to Wiki, but to the FARs. Works every time.

Answer 5

Well, this is another question that I will have to agree with Av8Trxx. How do you keep beating me to the good questions? Anyway, that answer is correct that both of you can log the PIC if that is what is agreed upon.

Answer 6

it doesnt add to your PIC time but it does add to your TOTAL time which is useful.