Rev. 12: 7-10?

Question

I read a lot of posts online which criticize the LDS church members for believing that Christ and Lucifer are brothers. I was raised LDS, and I have always known this was the case. I am curious, though, how other denominations teach the pre earth life. Sepcifically I am curious in the understand of the war in Heaven, Rev 12:7-10.
" 7 And there was awar in heaven: bMichael and his cangels fought against the dragon; and the ddragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in aheaven.
9 And the great dragon was acast out, that old serpent, called the bDevil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud avoice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and bstrength, and the kingdom of our God, and the cpower of his Christ: for the daccuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. "

Thanks.

Answer 1

Satan and Christ were brothers

Satan was a child of God but rebeled through his free will.
Thus becoming Satan because of his choice.

God just uses him in the plan of salvation.

People who say that Satan was not a brother then where did he originate from>?
You are seriously miss reading the scriptures.

I testify that the lds church is true and makes perfect sense through prayer study and personal revelation.

I would bet my life on it.

Plus the spirit confirms it.

Answer 2

Lucifer is nothing but an angel and one of God's most beautiful angels. No where in the Holy Bible does it call Lucifer, Satan and the Dragon, Serpent, devil anything but a fallen angel. Jesus said He saw him fall like lightning. The Bible does say in John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His ONLY begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." This verse is pretty clear that God has only one Son. Therefore Jesus and Lucifer being brothers is untrue. This is a heresy in your religion because Joseph Smith probably met Satan (Lucifer) and was greatly deceived by Lucifer.

Answer 3

Now as A Seventh Day Adventist Christian i know nothing with all due respect to this group called LDS but i DO however know my IT IS WRITTEN in The Bible and The Devil [lucifer] and The Second member of The Godhead are NOT brothers and that war is still going on and its between God, satan and YOU decide who wins, best find out more details free on line bible lessons www.amazingfacts.org OR www.itiswritten.com talk to me also [e-mail] God bless

Answer 4

hi. i grew up in church, and my grandfather was a pastor in India, so we talk about this a lot. Revelation is one of my favorite books. when it says bretheren, Jesus says that everyone is your brother and sister in christ, and that's what i think it means by that. Satan was an angel in heaven. He was the second most powerful being in heaven, besides the Holy Trinity. Satan's name was Lucifer. One day, Lucifer decided that he was bigger and better and greater then God so he, and one third of the other angels in heaven, were kicked out of heaven by God and satan and his demons formed hell. that's what i was always taught

Answer 5

'brethren' obviously means 'brother angel' just as it was proclaimed by angels. Jesus is not said anywhere in that passage to be kin to Satan in any way at all. John 1:1 tells us that Jesus was there BEFORE even the angels or anything else, and the HE (Jesus) made EVERYTHING that was made. So how one can come up with a Jesus/Satan brother relationship is beyond any stretch of the imagination. :)

Answer 6

The war in heaven was between the angles who were caught up with a terrible idea. That was their desire to be come like God. This is seen here:
Isaiah 14:12-15
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Where did God create the spirit of each of us, Again he tells us in His word..
Zechariah 12:1
The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

Wait who were the sons of God who shouted for joy in this verse?
Job 38:7
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

These are the angles. A separate creation from man. They would have to be to make the whole Bible be true, not just the parts you want to be true.

Look for the whole truth not just a few "proof texts" that seem to support your position but when looked at as a whole show Christ and what He did for us. His word shows that He is God that He is willing to take the penalty of our sin on Himself. And if we are willing to reach out to Him in faith, to give us eternal life.... Jim

Answer 7

I fail to see how this says that Christ and Satan are brothers. That would mean that Satan is a Son of God. It says that Satan is the accuser of our brethren, not that Satan is brethren. This is a heresy.

Answer 8

Salaam (Peace) to all...

Contrary to popular opinion, the above passage is not referring to "pre earth" period. It is referring to a period called "The Last Days", which deals with the final conflict between Good and Evil - God and Satan; but the language is symbolic and therefore difficult for some to "get".

Answer 9

They arent brothers. Michael is a high ranking angel like lucifer was. Jesus is not an angel. Hebrews 1:5 - For to which of the angels did He ever say," YOU ARE MY SON,TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU"?And again," I WILL BE A FATHER TO HIMAND HE SHALL BE A SON TO ME"?

Answer 10

--This war & prophecy of the "kingdom" coincides with Jesus prophecy at Matthew 24:3-12, Luke 21, Mark 13 and Pauls' at 2 Tim. 3:1-5 Which all refer to the "Last Days" prophecies.

--Interestingly the disciples of Christ asked several questions dealing with different happenings, please note:

(Matthew 24:3) “3 While he was sitting upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, When will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?””

--(Matthew 24:7-8) “7 “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. 8 All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.....”11 And many false prophets will arise and mislead many; 12 and because of the increasing of lawlessness the love of the greater number will cool off. 13 But he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved. "

--THE REFERENCE TO "your presence" or "parousia" of Christ would indeed have to be invisible, just as the "war in heaven" was--When the war was over, Satan would be thrown to the vicinity of the earth for the short period of time known as the "last days", "conclusion of the age", "conclusion of they system of things" --FOR OUR TIME!

--Rev.12:12 also speaks of it being "woe for the earth"--Because Satan has a "short period of time"

BREAKDOWN for when we as JW'S feel that this applies:

--If we keep in mind the throwing of Satan out of heaven, "the presence of Christ" in the heavenly kingdom or as vs.l0 says "now is come the kingdom of our God and ..... of Christ" would all coincide with "woe to the earth" & the "short period of time"--of Satan.

--OUR UNDERSTAND is that this war in heaven took place in 1914, AND was invisible in sound & sight to humans BUT the after affects were very visible:

(Revelation 11:15) “15 And the seventh angel blew his trumpet. And loud voices occurred in heaven, saying: “The kingdom of the world did become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king forever and ever.””....: “We thank you, Jehovah God, the Almighty, the One who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and begun ruling as king. 18 But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time for the dead to be judged, ........., and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth.”

--IF YOU NOTED the affect of Christs rule was hidden by the "nations became wrathful" situation. OF GREATEST note is what took place in the year 1914 as the Bible shows in the references in detail I provided above. Here is how the world viewed the EXTRA-ORDINARY events that took place then AND very related to what Jesus said in prophecy:

*** ce chap. 18 p. 228 The Bible—Is It Really Inspired by God? ***

1914—A TURNING POINT IN HISTORY

Even after a second world war, many refer back to 1914 as the great turning point in modern history:

“It is indeed the year 1914 rather than that of Hiroshima which marks the turning point in our time.”—René Albrecht-Carrié, The Scientific Monthly, July 1951.

“Ever since 1914, everybody conscious of trends in the world has been deeply troubled by what has seemed like a fated and predetermined march toward ever greater disaster. Many serious people have come to feel that nothing can be done to avert the plunge towards ruin. They see the human race, like the hero of a Greek tragedy, driven on by angry gods and no longer the master of fate.”—Bertrand Russell, The New York Times Magazine, September 27, 1953.

“The modern era . . . began in 1914, and no one knows when or how it will end. . . . It could end in mass annihilation.”—The Seattle Times, January 1, 1959.

“In the year 1914 the world, as it was known and accepted then, came to an end.”—James Cameron, 1914, published in 1959.

“The whole world really blew up about World War I and we still don’t know why. . . . Utopia was in sight. There was peace and prosperity. Then everything blew up. We’ve been in a state of suspended animation ever since.”—Dr. Walker Percy, American Medical News, November 21, 1977.

“In 1914 the world lost a coherence which it has not managed to recapture since. . . . This has been a time of extraordinary disorder and violence, both across national frontiers and within them.”—The Economist, London, August 4, 1979.

“Civilization entered on a cruel and perhaps terminal illness in 1914.”—Frank Peters, St. Louis Post-Dispatch, January 27, 1980.

“Everything would get better and better. This was the world I was born in. . . . Suddenly, unexpectedly, one morning in 1914 the whole thing came to an end.”—British statesman Harold Macmillan, The New York Times, November 23, 1980.

--Some food for thought!