A question for fellow atheists and others....?

Question

I was thinking about mammals and emotions and what not... and I started to wonder...

Why is it that elephants will return to the bones of dead relatives to fondle the bones with their trunks?

Is it similar to the "Day of the Dead" in Mexico, where they bring out the bones of dead relations?

Is it similar to how in biblical times they allowed bodies to decompose and then went back to place bones in ossuaries?

What do you theroize?

Answer 1

I don't know that I can hypothesize about why elephants in particular do this, but I have long believed (and yes, it was just a belief) that animals are much more "cultural" and attuned to their environments than we have traditionally given them credit for. I think with studies of higher mammals, specifically primates, we're finding that to be true.

It only goes to further reinforce Evolution in my mind. We are ALL animals, and I for one find something comforting and reassuring about that.

Answer 2

Strange isn't it...I've seen similar behavior in macaques in Indonesia. A former alpha male had just been beaten by a rival and died from his injuries. Later, some of the females of the group fussed over his body for a while but in a way that wasn't really normal monkey type behavior. It was almost as though they were expressing grief. The behavior of the elephants you mentioned is another animal behavior pattern concerning death that to me can not be completely explained. It could be that scent remains, or memories of the event are triggered by objects, whatever the reasons are, this conflicts with my personal theory regarding the main difference between humans and animals is that only we use our minds for purposes not directly related to survival of self and species. Because, this behavior is certainly not beneficial to survival at all. Maybe, because it seems to be only social animals that display this behavior, it has something to do with memory. Memory of individuals in a social group is an important function of social animals because it provides an ability to differentiate friend from foe. And some memories don't ever fade.

Answer 3

That other species have varieties of intelligence that I cant comprehend.

Cats have 19 areas of the brain that coordinate what they see and how they move - which is why they are prone to pounce on anything that moves)

Obviously animals have an emotional life - I work with addicts, and let me tell you something about thier pets - thier pets KNOW that they are needed to help maintain that persons sense of self. Dont ask me how I know, I just do - its a visual thing I cant describe about thier body language, etc.
I have seen the same thing watching leader dogs learn thier "career" - at some point it hits them "Oh crap, this isn't just a game" and they start getting "reponsible".

We have to assume they have emotional intelligences that we cant understand now, simply by virtue of the fact that they have memory, and desire to have company....and that (brain) function follows form - and thiers is different than mine.

Good Question - though I dont know if it belongs here....
But hey, it is the spot for philosophical sorts :)

Answer 4

I read somewhere that elephants are very well known to pick up the deceased elephant's bones and hide them in the brush. I think it's just built into them to bury the dead, so to speak. They usually cover them in branches and leaves. Some elephants were even observed to shed tears over the dead body of their deceased fellow, bury him or her, and return to the grave for months and even years to come. Elephants have always been known to be an intelligent and loving species.

Answer 5

I would have to assume that elephants have emotions and we all know that they have a good memory.

I watched a program on TV one time about Koko the gorilla. That is the one that has been taught sign language. She is wonderful and very expressive. There was a baby male gorilla found in the jungle and it was decided to raise the infant with Koko to see how much he could learn from her. His name is Micheal and he learned sign language very well. When he was about 4 years old his trainers ask him about his mother. He signed that his mother was dead from a gun and chopped up "monkey" meat. He cried when he signed to them. Makes you think don't it? Also I have read a book called The Gift Of The Deer about an old couple who were authors and went to the northwest for the winters to write and how they observed the ongoing family life of deer. Very compelling

Answer 6

Is is my understanding that the Day of the Dead in Mexico is related to all-souls day of Catholicism, where the progress of everyone who is passed away is remembered, and prayed for their increase is spiritual progress and joy, it's also where Halloween became associated with the Christian countries, both of them being a mix of native culture, and Catholosism.

The laying of bodies to decompose, and then returning the bones to be remembered, has to due with the principle in religion that everything must decay at a natural speed, so the equilibrium of nature is not disrupted and set back retrogressively, in addition to the above remembrance of souls practices. This is why things which were not wanted by religion were burned, to destroy those unnatural influences in nature. Sorcery for example. which is the attempt to use divine laws for selfish interest at the detriment of the whole of society was condemnable with the burning of the body, so those influences didn't affect the nature and society at large. Witches were considered in this category, but the old adage, the witch and her worts was not an appropriate use of the burning, since wort means plant "St. John's wort" for example, and herbalism was never to be considered sorcery, this was pure superstitious dogma, and irreligious.

The elephants, certainly has individual bodies, and emotions of family ties, this is self evident, but generally religion would deny it being anything beyond the body, since animals are deemed noble and eternal, with variance of appearance according to the needs of the environmental expression. by species, and not individuals per se, so the individuals in the case of animals, are limited to the physical.

The difference between materialist philosophy, and spiritual, is that materialist always put humans into the animal category effective, while spiritual believes in continuance of human individuals independent of the body, and sometimes animals, depending on the belief. Looking into it myself, I find them all true in difference spheres, since ultimately I believe there is only One, with diverse reflections upon the fluctuating pool of being, but this doesn't deny the reflections, just because I think what is reflected all-important in sum. In Islam its called Allah's Embrace, and Buddhism the "stream of consciousness", in Christianity, One body, one Soul, and one Spirit [St. Paul], at least by some scholars. The more I look at it the more it makes sense, and this belief must deny any hatred toward any part of it, just due respect to each varying merit.

With respect, God bless.

Answer 7

I believe that it is a physic connection to their departed family and i do believe that they are family. I think that is why elephant,s in captivity sway as they do. Sort of a meditation thing to connect to their dead when they cant get to the bones. And probably their living family as well. But hey what do i know.

Answer 8

Elephants do mourn, it would appear they even know which bones belonged to their loved ones. Their mourning shows us the roots of spirituality and the beginning of the idea of an afterlife. Some elephants and primates have been seen leaving little gifts at the bones of their relatives. Loss is one of the most painful and important parts of life. It is awesome to see such depth of emotion from our noble cousins.

Answer 9

Despite the view many have that we are far above other animals, or by some believers that we are something different all together and these other creatures are nothing important and soulless...really we should not be surprised that other creatures can morn losses as we do...

Answer 10

they desire to be close to their ancestry or they miss the living who are lost There are also tribes in south America who ritualistically eat the ashes of their ancestry. Sigmund Freud said the goal of life is death now I'm not sure what to make of this but maybe they are taking aim.silly well perhaps