Sincere question for believers...?

Question

What would it take for you to believe there is no God?

Seriously, I want to get some kind of idea.

If you say "nothing" would make you change your mind, then you are not open to rational discussion or thought.

But if you can imagine something, what would it be?

Thanks for answering folks.

I will try to give some examples as some have asked for:

I COULD be convinced that the earth is really not a sphere - I could imagine a mathematician that could come out with a proof that we have been deluded all along. That our satalites were really being affected by some wierd (as yet unknown) light warping mechanisim that was caused by a nearby black hole. I could be convinced that we are really living on a disk and that when we "think" we travel around the world, we are really just traveling in some kind of circle that gave us the illusion of going straight.

I admit all this is unlikely, but it is nonetheless possible.


Likewise, I COULD be convinced that I've actually been living in a "matrix like" world where I've been living delusions. Or I COULD be convinced that I'm schyophernic and most of the people I "know" were not real.

These are examples.

To one answerer: a simple statistical survey would convince me that a normal person is born with 10 fingers.

Oh, God could EASILY convince me of his reality right now: I am thinking of three books. If there is a God it would be childs play for him to know the three books I'm thinking of, tell one of you believers so that you could write it to me.

I will be waiting.

Hint to God:

I'm thinking of three books - they are NOT "The Bible," "The Koran," nor "The Book of Mormon."

Why is the question valid? That is, why would it be irrational not to be able to think of anything that would convince you of the non-existance of God?

Because it is saying that no mater how real something might be, you will not believe it. No matter how much evidence is given, you will not be convinced. Think about it if you applied that to any other area of thought. (Incidently, 2+2=4 only holds up in base 10 mathematics).

Reference this question:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Ar3_UaW9S.ek2eOVrZl_k_fsy6IX?qid=20070316113824AA1t07e

Nevertheless, about 4 people actually did try to answer the question - Thank you.

Answer 1

This was a very difficult question to answer. However, I did finally come up with one:

God makes eternal promises to the Jewish people through their forefather, Abraham. One of those promises is to make Abraham's descendents as numerous as the sands of the sea and to establish them in the land of Israel.

If the Jews were totally destroyed (God forbid, since I love the Jews) and Israel became a nuclear wasteland, this would prove God doesn't exist.

However, this will never happen. Isn't this the very thing Hitler tried to do? Yet, God stopped him, didn't he? And God will stop that crazy midget Ahmadinejad in Iran, too.

Answer 2

Believing something is not a matter of choosing, since beliefs are not connected to our volition in any straightforward way. One cannot simply "choose to believe, or choose not to believe." Moreover, beliefs come interconnected in the sense that they are not like candies in a box where where removing one does not disturb some pattern; but, rather, more like a web or net where removing a part tends to tangle the rest.

That means your question might be very hard for people to give answer to because it means imagining the world --where world includes a more or less given web of beliefs-- which provides a set of answers similar to but also very different from a current set. For example, if you had asked Tycho Brahe to imagine a world where Ptolemaic physiscs was displaced, he would have had a very hard time explaining to you what such a world might look like. Do you see the point. Of course, Newton was later able to see a world where he could explain why it was rational to hold Ptolemy's views and at the same time offer an explanation of why it failed in precisely the ways it did.

So, your asking the question carries a burden, namely articulating a world in which God does not exist, articulating why some (or all) religious beliefs fail, and finally articulating why it was rational to believe them in the first place.

For my part, a good reason argument for why the question "Why is there something rather than nothing" is not relevant, or a sound argument about why "The Argument from Contingency fails" should get the conversation moving in directions you want to explore.

HTH

Charles

Answer 3

The question is valid and isn't some sort of extemist view. It's a simple question. And the answer of 'nothing' shows that you would neither think about the possibility or would never accept it regardless of substantial proof that he doesn't exist. I've seen answers to the question that, if there was overwhelming proof that god didn't exist, would one still believe and many still said yes. Is that rational? No. It is not. There's faith, blind faith and there is just plain idiocy.

It would be like saying you're not leaving the building because you know it's not on fire when it fact it's burning down around you.

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All these answers saying they saw miracles, felt his "presence", blah blahblah. Did you question it? Or do you just take it at face value that it's god? It wasn't gas? A hellucination cos you fasted for three days? Look up Occam's Razor.

Oh, and the explanation of god not needing to show himself to us because he doesn't have to but he will if we let him. Why do we need to let him? He's god! He seems pretty vain. I think he'd want us to know he's there cos he wants us to worship him. Seems that he made that point pretty clear in the OT.

Answer 4

To be convinced there is no God? To be honest? I don't know...

That is about the most honest and logical response other than 'nothing'...

And to 'Nihilist Templar' somewhere above me...

You are very articulate, yet very ignorant.

You really think flowery words and an impeccable syntax of language makes a difference to those who possess a higher intelligence quotient than you? Your words are very well chosen yet possess little logic to them, except for the last paragraph... That was an opinion and holds no sway over the discussion...

All I've gotten from your response was an attempt to impress other people who are less intelligent than you into giving you more respect and, in turn, actually fool them into believing in what you intend for them to...

More to the point... Your views are INCORRECT. Certain facts are unquestionable such as 2+2=4. NOTHING can disprove that. That reality is proven and undeniable. Mathematics and Death are two of the fewest things that are absolute in this world. Learn to accept that my belief in Allah is too...

What amuses me is that you actually WILL succeed...

Knowledge is power; power is freedom; freedom is peace...

Peace be upon you all...

Answer 5

The same thing it would take for you to believe there is a God; a change of heart.

What I know I received without cost; and like all wisdom, it is nothing I could sell or trade or deny.

If you were to ask: What would it take for you to postulate there is no God or gods? My answer would be: All you have to do is ask. I have done so numerous times, but find no necessity for it any more. The knowledge of God and a god concept are two different things for me.

Can I imagine something that would shake or destroy someones faith in a concept of God? Sure, I think the fact of death, and ones response to pain and suffering, has more to do with atheism and theism than religion or science for most people.

Answer 6

Back in the day before I became a strong Christian, I was skeptical to whether there was a God or not.

Through life experience and a lot of praying and fasting, I realized that theres no possible way God doesn't exist. I have felt him move in me like no human could ever do. I have seen miracles that cannot be described by anything else.

For reassurance, i look back to the beggining of times. Something had to be there, whether it was God, or a rock.. I choose God.

I don't believe that having faith in God makes anyone narrowminded. I think that once you really ask Jesus to show his faith, you know in your heart and mind that he is real. I'm still open to discussion on the issue, but I can't deny what i know. It's like trying to tell someone the sky is pink when they know its blue. It just doesn't make sense

Answer 7

Serious question, serious answer. It would take a rational explanation of the many things that point to the existence of God in some way that makes more sense than God: nature, the origin of life, rationality, morality, the longing inside each one of us, etc. It would also take the negation of my personal experience of God, and some explanation that holds water (not like what I read on so-called "skeptical" web sites) of the similar experiences of thousands of other people.

My question to you could be what you make you believe that there is a God. If He wrote in huge letters across the sky "Hey! I am God!" are you seriously telling us that you would believe? I don't believe that - there are always natural explanations for things. Heck, if people can come up with natural explanations for all the things I mentioned before, a little thing like sky writing should be child's play to explain away.

Ultimately, though, God is not indebted to you or me or any other person. He does not need to make Himself known just for our pleasure. He makes Himself known to us for His pleasure and His alone. And, the truth is, you will never believe in Him unless He opens your eyes and your heart. He is willing to, of course ... if you were only open to it.

Go ahead, Λογγίνος - "pick on" me if it makes you feel better. I don't answer to you, just as you don't answer to me. We all answer individually to God, and good luck with that.

Answer 8

I do not need to 'be open' to your "rational discussion or thought"

Everything around you (the Cosmos) proves that there is a God. Nothing comes from nothing. Something comes from something. This is Thermodynamics . . . it is Science!

Science does not support the idea that this 'stuff' has always been here. It does support the idea that this 'stuff' has a beginning. So who started it? Where did it all come from? What action caused this reaction?

Now we are asking rational questions, having a rational discussion!

Answer 9

Saying that "Nothing could convince me that there is no God" does not mean I am not open to rational discussion or thought.

If I were to ask you "What would it take for you to believe that a healthy, normal person is born with 10 fingers?" your answer would be "Nothing".

To say that there is something that could convince you that nornal healthy people are NOT born with 10 fingers would lead me to believe that you were not open to rational discussion or thought.

Answer 10

You know, when germs or radiation or even the world being round was being discussed (before it was proven/widely accepted) - I bet the same could have been said.

What would it take for you to believe the world is flat? Nothing...well you are not open to rational discussion or thought then.

When my experience and my research has proven God to me...there is nothing you could do to prove otherwise. You can't fight direct experience (the world is round - there is nothing what would prove to me otherwise)

~ Eric Putkonen