For anti-Mormons only.?

Question

If the gold plates never existed, how did Joseph get numerous witnesses to stand by their stories until their dying day, even when some of them later became angry with Joseph and left the Church?

There were witnesses to the plates, Einstein.

Check out these links

The three witnesses http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Witnesses

The eight witnesses http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Witnesses

You must not have read your Book of Mormon very often because on the front page of every single one there is the testimony of the 3 and 8 witnesses of the divine authenticity of the work.

Answer 1

As I recall... no one saw the plates other then JS. Even the scribe he dictated to never saw the plates. Check your history more carefully... there were no witnesses to the plates.

Edit: Just checked with my Bishop brother-in-law... no witnesses to the actual plates, only to the transcripts. Wikipedia is not a reliable source... active LDS folk will give you better info. The "witnesses" are witnesses in faith, not in fact.

Go to church on fast and testimony and see the many people who will go to the open "mike" to utter the mantra "i know the church is true" it means nothing in factual terms.

Answer 2

Well hmmm perhaps they were coerced in some fashion or tricked into believing that they were being shown these "holy" gold plates when they were likely a fake covered in gibberish produced in the next county by Smith to be pulled for just such an occasion.

Please do you really believe that the Aboriginal people of north / south America were white like Euros until they pissed off a traveling Jesus 2 thousand years ago?

I am not anti Mormon - I guess I am just for the use of brain cells - However as with any religious person I generally haven't any problem unless they themselves have a problem with my not believing. PS I have read the Mormon bible years ago (yay free books) and it didn't mean anything more or make any more sense than the original. Oh except it was clearly a work of fiction.

Answer 3

Those "witnesses" probably did indeed see *something.* Were they really gold? Nobody ever chemically analyzed what they saw, so there's no answer to that.
Were they buried in a hill in New York, and were dug up by JS, who was led to them by an angel? None of those witnesses ever saw those things happen.
Did what they saw have the writings of an ancient American civilization on them, a civilization that came from Jerusalem, was visited by jesus, and was eventually wiped out? None of the witnesses can testify to that -- only JS could "translate" the plates. All the witnesses saw were squiggles on metal.

SO...those witnesses, if they're being truthful, did see something. Does the fact they saw something validate the book of mormon as what the LDS church claims it to be? No, sorry. It just means they saw some plates (not necessarily gold) with some strange squiggly writing (not necessarily the language JS claimed), which JS showed them (and doesn't prove he found them where he said he did, that he was led to them by an angel, or anything else). It just means they saw something.
JS could have made up plates (even out of brass or some other metal -- heck, they could even be gold), and that would make the "witness" statements accurate to a point. It doesn't mean they were what he said they were.

You have to remember, JS was a guy who had pulled numerous scams on people before -- he was pretty good at it. He convinced people he could find buried gold by looking at magic stones in his hat, and several people believed him and paid him money to do that for them. He was once convicted of fraud for doing just that, and not delivering (yes, it's on record).

Then there's the huge mass of archaeological evidence that absolutely proves the book of mormon history of ancient america wrong, and none that supports it...

Sorry, you don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to evidence. Try again.

Health to your navel, marrow to your bones, power in the priesthood be upon you and upon your posterity, through all generations of time and throughout all eternity. :)

Peace.

Answer 4

Numerous Witnesses?

There were 11 witnesses. 10 of them were related to Smith and his right-hand man Crowdery. The one guy who was not related ... I believe his last name was Harris, maybe Walter Harris. I don't recall his first name.
Anyway, after he left the faith, he claimed that the only time he ever saw the plates he was in a state of 'entrancement.' At alternating times, he also said he never saw them.

My issue with the plates, however, is in translation. (and subsequent changes to the original book of mormon that mormons now deny.)
The Book of Mormon, in its original language - they called it 'reformed egyption' I think - was supposed to have been translated by Smith, with the help of the Urim and Thummim. The original account stated that Smith would translate a passage, and as he translated, the passage would disappear. If the passage was translated incorrectly, the passage would remain until Smith corrected it.

First off, I find it interesting that Smith - translating in the early to mid 1800s, would have exact quotations from the King James Bible that was translated 200 years before. The English language had changed significantly by this point, and it doesn't make sence to me that he would not have written in what was, at the time, contemporary english.
It has also been shown that he plagerized ideas from at least two other sources, and inserted passages from other books into the Book of Mormon.

In addition, if he did copy EXACTLY word for word what was written on the tablets, and the words would not disappear from the tablets unless he translated it exactly the way it should be ... then why have there been over 4,000 changes to the Book of Mormon?

Answer 5

I have no trust in anyone who tries to make up religious belief. The man was a charlatan. "The least becomes the greatest" doesn't mean if you're a deacon in your church in this life, you'll be a little demi-god of a distant planet in the next. Actually, the little people in the church, the humble, are way more likely to reap any heavenly rewards than the pharasees of any church. Seems the mormon church forgot that little tidbit in their push to get to the highest orders of the church. Trying to make themselves little demi-gods is just way past any title-loving group I've ever encountered.

You might be better served looking into scientology, at least its so obvioulsy fake you're not really being conned.

And please, Moses got stone tables, you think old Joe was so much more pleasing he deserved gold? I think not. Read the bible, the real bible, and your eyes will be opened.

Answer 6

Mormons believe that God has not always been the Supreme Being of the universe, but attained that status through righteous living and persistent effort.

Until Mormons get that straightened out nothing they believe will EVER hold water.

Answer 7

Because if they admitted that they'd never seen them, they would look really stupid. But probably a better explanation is that really Mormany-Mormans take an oath that states if they leave the Church, the church leaders should 'cut them from ear to ear', or in other words slit their throats. I know. Mormans are intelligent folk, aren't they?? :)

Answer 8

I don't think it's very difficult to find scoundrels to lie for you, especially if you take care of them. Examples:

Jim Jones
Reverend Moon
Michael Moore
George Bush

If you're observant, you'll notice people of all flavors attaching themselves irrationally to beliefs of all kinds and will shield themselves from the truth regardless of how ridiculous it is to outsiders.

I'm primarily anti-Mormon because Mormons don't test their own beliefs. How do you know you're not being duped if you never test yourself?

Answer 9

You think any of Jim Jones or David Keresh's followers still hold to what they said?

It's a cult, it's a form of brainwashing and the mormons leader was a drug addict, con-artist and crazy.

Answer 10

i've got spent approximately 40 years in bishoprics, intense councils, and clerk positions, and that i've got viewed varied human beings depart the Church. i've got sat on varied disciplinary councils. None of them left the Church because of the fact of "information" against the Church. There are some who purely steadily glide away into inactiveness. each so often this is as a results of a loss of religion, led to via doubts led to via something they have examine. one in all my brothers became into like that, in spite of the actuality that he has because of the fact come lower back to Church. He did no longer decide directly to tell me approximately his doubts because of the fact he had grow to be confident that there became into no answer to his doubts, and he did no longer decide directly to burden me along with his doubts. that's purely too undesirable he did no longer confer with me, because of the fact there is often an answer. element of his undertaking nevertheless became into that he became into searching for a reason to no longer pass on a undertaking, and "blindly" stick to the example of his older brothers. It became into in section a satisfaction difficulty. I also have a concept approximately people who depart the Church and declare it became into because of the fact of information. They fall into 3 communities. (a million) some are easily at a loss for words via the arguments of adult adult males. (2) some seek for information the Church isn't genuine, yet deep down they know the genuine reason became into they have been indignant or they felt responsible approximately their sins. (3) And others don't understand their very own reasons. In a psychology type I as quickly as took I heard of an thrilling test on the subject of this third team. a individual in yet another psychology type became into hypnotized and given a submit-hypnotic advice. The hypnotized pupil became into instructed that once the instructor coughed the pupil could upward push up from his seat and open the window to the faculty room. He would not bear in mind something he became into instructed while hypnotized. He became into then awaken from his hypnotic trance and instructed to pass lower back to his seat. the pupil remembered no longer something of what he became into instructed on a similar time as hypnotized. the instructor after a couple of minutes coughed, and the pupil have been given up and opened the window. Now right this is the element of this tale. while requested why he opened the window his strategies as we talk synthetic a reason. He suggested he became into warm, and surprisingly sufficient his physique proved it via getting crimson and sweaty.