Im curious on what Calvin and Luther thought about Justification and the Catholic response to this doctrine.?

Question

I find this being an interesting question. I want a good understanding here. Please provide links. Thanks

Answer 1

I can't speak for John Calvin. But Martin Luther had a pretty high regard for the Doctrine of Justification.

“This is the highest article of our faith, and if one should abandon it as the Jews do or pervert it like the Papists, the church cannot stand nor can God maintain His glory which consists in this, that He might be merciful and that He desires to pardon sins for His Son’s sake and to save.“

“This doctrine can never be urged and taught enough. If this doctrine is overthrown or disappears, then all knowledge of the truth is lost at the same time. If this doctrine flourishes, then all good things flourish-religion, true worship, the glory of God and the right understanding of all conditions of life and of all things.“’

“. . .he who does not hold to this article and this basic truth, to wit, true faith and trust in Christ, is no theologian. All the other articles flow into and out of this one, and without it the others are nothing....Those who are disturbed and afflicted, those who are troubled and tempted relish this article; they are the ones who understand the gospel.“ Table Talk #1583

The Lutheran Confessions have a pretty good synopsis of the Doctrine of Justification in the 'Apology of the Augsburg Confession' in Article IV. If you want Martin Luther's view on the Doctrine of Justification, I think this is the to start here.

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Jim McCrea,
You might want to go back and re-read the 2nd chapter of St. James, take off your Roman Catholic glasses and read the whole chapter. No where, does St. James talk about Justification by Works in his 2nd chapter, it is an exhortation of God's Law. Yet, Faith and Works can not be separated, as St. James indicates. You can't have the one (Faith) and not the other. The Lutheran Confessions state it well.
"74] Love also and works must follow faith. Wherefore, they are not excluded so as not to follow, but confidence in the merit of love or of works is excluded in justification. And this we will clearly show." (1)

I would also like to quote Martin Luther, on the Book of James,
"Though this epistle of St. James was rejected by the ancients, I praise it and consider it a good book, because it sets up no doctrines of men but vigorously promulgates the law of God." (2)

and

"In a word, he [the author] wanted to guard against those who relied on faith without works, but was unequal to the task. He tries to accomplish by harping on the law what the apostles accomplish by stimulating people to love. Therefore I cannot include him among the chief books, though I would not thereby prevent anyone from including or extolling him as he pleases, for there are otherwise many good sayings in him." (3)

Do you see where he is coming from? It is easy for me, probably because Lutherans always try to maintain the proper distinction between the Law and the Gospel. Make no mistake, St. James is all Law in his book, very few Gospel.

But while we are on the topic of Sola Fide, lets see what the Church Fathers had to say on the topic.

"For Ambrose says: It is ordained of God that he who
believes in Christ is saved, freely receiving remission of sins, without works, by faith alone."(4)

"12] And lest any one should craftily say that a new interpretation of Paul has been devised by us, this entire matter is supported by the testimonies of the Fathers. For 13] Augustine, in many volumes, defends grace and the righteousness of faith, over against the merits of works. 14] And Ambrose, in his De Vocatione Gentium, and elsewhere, teaches to like effect. For in his De Vocatione Gentium he says as follows: Redemption by the blood of Christ would become of little value, neither would the preeminence of man’s works be superseded by the mercy of God, if justification, which is wrought through grace, were due to the merits going before, so as to be, not the free gift of a donor, but the reward due to the laborer." (5)

Also, how then do you reconcile Ephesians 2:8-9 with your view?
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. "It is the gift of God," last time I checked I did nothing to receive my Birthday Gifts. They were hand delivered to me and put in my hands by my nephews. "So that no one can boast," I think verse 9 seals the deal.

But yet you claim that only 3 to 4 verses are used to justify this point? Practically the whole book of Romans drives home this point. This isn't a case of 3 or 4 verses used and the rest of the Bible disregarded. At times, I think Paul beats this point like a dead horse. I honestly don't expect you to get this. Probably because when this (Augsburg Confession and the Apology) were first presented to the Emperor and the Roman Catholic Church, it was rejected and attacked. They didn't get it in the 1500's and they still don't get it today.

And at certain points of your answer you almost sound like you are defending the Lutheran Theology.
"To understand the Truth, we have to consider the *whole* bible, as the reading of various parts correct erroneous notions that would occur if simply one passage were read in isolation|" Agreed, you do need to take the Scriptures as a whole. Scripture Interprets Scripture.
But when YOU start parsing out Pauls words, saying that certain parts of Romans are for the Jews, you are treading on thin ice.
I will leave you with this quote:
"73] The particle alone offends some, although even Paul says, Rom. 3, 28: We conclude that a man is justified by faith, without the deeds of the Law. Again, Eph. 2, 8: It is the gift of God; not of works, lest any man should boast. Again, Rom. 3, 24: Being justified freely. If the exclusive alone displeases, let them remove from Paul also the exclusives freely, not of works, it is the gift, etc. For these also are [very strong] exclusives. It is, however, the opinion of merit that we exclude. We do not exclude the Word or Sacraments, as the adversaries falsely charge us. For we have said above that faith is conceived from the Word, and we honor the ministry of the Word in the highest degree."

Answer 2

This is some of the best history you will read about Martin Luther and the part he played in the reformation.

This is in a book called "the Great Controversy" a book outlining the history of Christians, and there are 2 chapters solely about him.

Worth a look, God bless!!

:edit: Luther saw that we were justified by Jesus blood alone, Catholics teach salvation by works, say a prayer over and over and you have forgiveness for example, or just pay money to the church and you can be forgiven. the CC was built upon pagan sunworship and rampant spiritualism, sadly so are many protestant churches today.

Answer 3

Martin Luther additionally believed in Christ's presence interior the Eucharist as properly as interior the Sacrament of Confession. he's given lots extra credit than he's due. All he did replace into plant the seed. He did not do lots different than translate the Bible into German, Sola Scriptura and Sola Feda. different than that, he replace right into a great Catholic. He did not prefer to leave the Church, he replace into making plans to alter it from the interior, yet to to nationalism and different situations, he had to leave the Church.

Answer 4

Luther wrote that even if someone committed murder on a daily basis, they could still go to heaven if they believed in Christ.

The Catholic response, of course, is that this is contrary to common morals, not to mention common sense.

.

Answer 5

Are you referring to the counter-reformation? That's a wikipedia one. If anything, the Calvinists did come up with several creeds, catechisms, and confessions you might be interested in. Try www.reformed.org for those, don't have any info on the Lutheran side though.

Answer 6

They believed that one is saved by faith alone (sola fide)|


But that is not biblical (in spite of their claims that it is)|

It is true that we need faith - that is the foundation - but a building needs more than merely a foundation|


Look at the epistle of James| "Faith without works is dead" (Jas. 2:20)| Luther called this a "straw" epistle| I don't get it, how can he dismiss that when it is considered part of the 66 books that Protestants accept?

But that has to be completed by going to yet another part of the Bible| Look at 1 Corinthians 13| It says there that if you have faith to move mountains, without love, you are nothing|

In the first epistle of John, he says that those who do not love are among the living dead| Those who claim to love God but hate their neighbor are but liars and murderers, and eternal life does not abide in the heart of a murdered|

"It is not those who cry 'Lord, Lord' who enter the kingdom of heaven, but those who do the will of God in heaven" (Mt. 7:21)|

And what is the will of God? Look at Mt. 25:31-46|

Those who are saved are those who attended to the little ones with love, whereas those who are damned callously ignored their needs to advance their own agenda|


It was Martin Luther who added the word "alone" to "The just man lives by faith" (Rom 1:17)|

That shows how one tiny addition to Sacred Scripture (of course, totally unauthorized) can put the whole of Christianity on a completely wrong course, as demonstrated by the phenomenon of Protestantism|


Sola fide comes from considering about 3 or 4 passages of Scripture and ignoring the rest|

To understand the Truth, we have to consider the *whole* bible, as the reading of various parts correct erroneous notions that would occur if simply one passage were read in isolation|


And we have to understand what Romans means in saying that we are saved by faith and not works| That was directed to Jewish people there saying that they are not saved by just going through the motions of the law, as if all God wanted us to do was to jump through hoops| There has to be a *soul* to our actions, which is living faith, topped and competed by charity|


That is the ultimate test that determines our salvation| Do we truly care about the happiness and affirmation of the other, or do we just see others as means to our own ends| If we do so, we are going straight to hell when we die - no matter what our expressions of faith, good works, or piety are - for if you read the Gospel - you can see Jesus condemning works done just for show, piety simply to show how holy one is, and the sterility of faith that does not express itself in anything concrete| The expressions of those are different today, but those are the vices being practiced today, by both Protestants and Catholics alike - Big Time|




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Answer 7

The Catholic response can be found in the documents of the Council of Trent: http://history.hanover.edu/texts/trent/ct06.html

Answer 8

Wow......this is one of the best questions I have seen in a long time...congrats, but unfortunately its 3:30 AM, and I'm not thinking clearly enough to answer much but "one liners."

Answer 9

There was a Catholic response?

I'd like to read that too.

Could it be the Spanish Inquisition...:)