If I was recently promoted to the same rank as another individual from my unit (however, he wa promoted before me), am I required to follow his orders?
If so, would my obligation to obey these orders be equivalent to my obligation to follow orders issued by senior officers? Or, is his "jurisdiction" over me limited?
If I am not required to obey his orders, when does his seniority (due to time of promotion) come into play? Will I ever HAVE to sit second-chair to him or follow his orders (if we remain the same rank)?
Also, if at all possible, please include references to official military documents (ie-UCMJ).
I would like to be able to re-state specific articles within these documents the next time I approach this individual on the matter (that way, I can seem as though I know what I am saying -and that I am not simply making it all up).
Thanks!
2007-02-24 16:55:55 · 12 answers · asked by semper_fi 2 in Politics & Government ➔ Military
After reading a few of the answers that have just been provided, I feel as though I have not adequately explained my question.
Allow me to try again: Am I obligated to obey the orders of another individual who is the same rank as me (but senior, due to his time-in-grade)?
2007-02-24 17:20:53 · update #1
The first "tie breaker" for rank is time in grade.
2007-02-24 16:58:22 · answer #1 · answered by Anonymous · 1⤊ 1⤋
OK.
If that person in question was promoted at a date on paper before you, then they are seinor to you - seniority - they are senior to you even though you are the same rank. Why dont you actually check and see who really is senior by date of promotion?
There is also "positional authority". For example: you have worked in the job for 3 years but here comes johhny and he has no experience. You are running the show and are still in charge "positionally" because of your experience even though he out ranks you. In the end he still out ranks you by seniority.
Now, I dont remember the exact arctilcle or verbage but, you dont have to take an order if it is riddiculously out of place ie. sexual, racial or just plain stupid. It will depend on the situation and it is not so black and white like in the UCMJ. If it came down to it and you are right, your superiors will use common sense with the UCMJ as a guideline.
If you have a problem with this individual, confront them conservatively and try to resolve. I dont know this person or you for that matter, but if its just a stupid rank battle ( I made rank 30 minutes before you did) then both of you have problems. If I am wrong then I apologize.
I have also seen what you are talking about many times as a genuine problem - power trips ( by someone who really doesnt have much power and has a control issue) - and it can make a workplace miserable. Thats where talking to superiors, useing the chain of command comes into play.
As far as quoting the UCMJ, that is for you to research. The research will make you a more knowledgeable person. You might even be able to help the next person with your newfound knowledge. A link....
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/ucmj.htm
I also hope you can come to a passing with the individual before you have to take it to the next step. Good luck.
2007-02-24 17:48:45 · answer #2 · answered by eetrapnoel 2 · 0⤊ 0⤋
It depends on the situation. If for instance you are put in charge of a squad of men to complete a mission, project or whatever because you are the most qualified, then you would outrank anyone within that squad regardless of their rank. As long as the person who put you in charge also outranks every one in the squad. For instance a 1st lieutenant could not put you in charge of a squad containing a captain. But under normal circumstances if you line up according to rank, it goes by grade, and if you are same grade then time in grade. As far as whether or not his jurisdiction is limited the answer is no. Out ranked is out ranked. As long as it's a lawful order I would suggest you follow it with a YES SIR!
2007-02-24 17:52:27 · answer #3 · answered by desperado4363 2 · 0⤊ 0⤋
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2016-10-16 10:44:14 · answer #4 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 0⤋
Yes, they are still senior to you. The military is all about this stuff. If you don't like something this person is doing or you think it is in anyway and illegal order, talk to the next person in your chain of command, but other than that, you are junior and get to play the game until further notice. Make rank quicker next time and maybe you will be senior to this person sometime. Yes it sucks, but the little things like, getting paid for a rank before somebody else still means they are senior to you. Is it petty, maybe, but they military thrives on such little things.
2007-02-24 19:28:54 · answer #5 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 0⤋
If, and only IF your buddy has been given a command position by a senior NCO, or from an Officer, then yes, you have to obey him. It isn't him that you are obeying, it is the senior individual that put him in charge.
If the background to your question is everyday stuff, like who gets to go out in the rain to empty the mop bucket, and your buddy is pulling rank on you, tell him to shove it. His time in grade is meaningless UNLESS a senior NCO, or an Officer tells you, to your face, or in writing, that you have to obey him. In that situation, I would ask for a duration of the order. People do like to take advantage of others if they think that they can.
My advice to you is to study hard, practice everything to become as proficient as you can. Ask senior NCO's what will enhance your chance of rank advancement, and do it. If it is college work to get a degree, set the fun times aside and get the college training done. If it is working on extra duties of some kind, such as helping out in the community around you, go do it. The rank advancement boards do look at things like this. Make yourself the best posible candidate, and you could wind up being the one to whom your buddy has to obey. To a very large degree, you control your destiny, take that control. It might mean fewer parties attended in the short run, but the advancement you attain can, and will, make up for it.
2007-02-24 17:56:37 · answer #6 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 0⤋
Yes they can give you an order and do outrank you. However, if you feel that the orders are unjustified, and you dont like it, after confronting them on the issue it doesnt get resolved to your liking, take it up with someone higher than both of you, use the chain of command, its there to resolve those sort of issues. The only way around not taking orders from him or her, is get assigned a higher post than them, and then you will be barking the orders.
2007-02-24 18:40:32 · answer #7 · answered by kris76 4 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Yes, if he is put in charge, or there is no one more senior to him. But if you are put in charge, then he has to follow your orders. Usually this scenario comes up with officers of the same rank when they find themselves in unusual situations. Although he can not override or countermand an order you received from a higher rank
2007-02-24 17:27:13 · answer #8 · answered by John B 4 · 1⤊ 0⤋
seniority is the backbone of deciplain in the armed forces.even if you are graduated in the same day,the one who got one mark more is senior.if in any case one of these is to be chosen for a command of any level,the one of the higher mark will be chosen.in this case you have to obay him since he became your commander.it is not that you have to obay whoever is senior to you,but if he is senior and in the chain of your command.and he is authorised to issue orders to you.
2007-02-24 17:32:43 · answer #9 · answered by adm_maaf 4 · 1⤊ 0⤋
OK...some of the things that were said before me are true, but it doesn't sound like you're in a situation like they mentioned.
Heres the deal, if your buddy gets promoted to E5 or whatever, and you get promoted 6 months later to the same rank, you don't have to listen to him, Unless his position gives him "command authority" over you. For example, you're the same rank, but because he has TIG over you, he's made Team Leader. Because he's in an authoritative position over you, you have to listen to him, but if you're just 2 joes in a similar position, in reality, you're pretty much equal. It also depends on your boss feels about it.
2007-02-24 17:18:36 · answer #10 · answered by machine_head_327 3 · 2⤊ 0⤋
The order of things is rank then position then time in grade.
If you guys are the same rank then it goes by your position. i.e. we have an CO XO who is a 1LT and a CO CDR who is also a 1LT. Because the one LT is the CO, he out ranks the other.
When you are both the same rank and the same position, it goes by time in grade.
Hopefully, you guys can work things out before it gets to that point.
2007-02-24 17:05:25 · answer #11 · answered by ? 6 · 1⤊ 0⤋