What is the underlying basis for the Jewish claim on most of Israel territory?

Question

Here is an honest question- and please don't lable me an anti semite for asking it- But what is the original basis for the Jewish claim on Israel and surrounding areas? As I understand it, much of that are was occupied by the British, they encourage many of the European Jews at the end of WW2 to move there-
The Brits tried to artificially divide the land into a Jewish state and a Palastinian state. The Jewish state was created- but no cohesive Palastinian state was formed- wheich is one reason for much of the tension. Many Jews assert the land there was given to Jews 'by God'. So does the Jewish claim on that land have more to do with the original British mandate-or God's mandate?
If a Palastinian state were created, wouldnt that bring an end to much of the strife? Of course with many in the middle east threatening to destroy Israel- there will never be peace.
If the Jews argue they have a right to the land over the Palastinians because 'God said so', it's a very shaky claim.

Answer 1

Leaving religion aside, the claim of the Jews on the land is mostly historical and cultural.

The Zionist movement was founded at the mid 19th century. The movement arose correspondingly to the revival of the romantic nationalism of the European nations, and the persecutions of the Jews in Europe ("May Laws", Dreyfus affair…).
There has always been a Jewish settlement in Israel, but the first big immigration waves came at the 80's of the 19th century from East Europe and Yemen. The next Aliyah waves (Jewish immigration to Israel) took place in 1903-1914 (Second Aliyah), 1919-1923 (Third Aliyah), 1924-1928 (Fourth Aliyah), 1931-1939 (Fifth Aliyah), where 475,000 Jews from all over Europe and the Middle East came to Israel to build and live in the Jewish state.
As you see, we are much more active and ahead of our time than most people give us credit for- no one "encouraged" Jews to settle Israel (especially not the Brits, who came 40 years after the first Aliyahs), and the Holocaust (that came 60 years after the first Aliyahs) had a very little to do with the creation of the state.
As opposed to the common belief in the Arab world, the Jewish settlement in Israel is not a new form of colonialism, and Israel does not exist only because of the Holocaust.

In November 29th 1947, the UN voted in favor the Partition Plan, a formal declaration of the establishment of two separate states on the land: a Jewish state and an Arab state.
On the very same night, 7 Arab armies declared war on the Jewish settlement in response to the voting and thus breached the plan (Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Lebanon, Arab Liberation Army and the Palestinian Arabs).
The Jewish settlement (that during the war declared independence) won the war.
Since then, several attempts to create an Arab state and sign peace have been failed and breached (guess by who).

We don't claim to own the land. No land belongs to any one.
Our affinity to the land is derived from our history on it; the Jewish culture, religion and tradition were formed in Israel, and this is the place were we want to live (the Zionist Movement's attempts to create a Jewish state in Uganda and Argentina fell for this matter).
What claim on the land do the Arabs have? They occupied the land just like any other nation before and after them. In fact, the land was ruled by Arabs only twice: the Arab Caliphate (638-1099 CE) and the Mamluk period (1244-1517 CE). They had loads of empires before them and after them. (the Jews, if you were wondering, ruled it for a much longer period of time: from the ancient times, through the kingdoms of Judah and Israel, the Hasmoneans etc).

I am all for the idea of two states and a true peace, but seeing the whole picture and getting to know history is a very important step towards is.

Answer 2

There are some Jews who claim the land was G-d given, particularly the very religious and those who live in the West Bank (Judea and Sumaria.) However, an overwhelming majority of Israelis and other Jews would say the claim is not because of a divine gift but the political and military process.

I won't recount all the history, but discussions for Israel started at the end of the 1800s and into the very early 1900s. Other places other than Palestine were discussed, but eventually Jerusalem and the surrounding areas were the most popular choice because of the Jewish history there. The British gave land through the mandate after WWI and then allowed many immigrants to come after WWII. After failed negotiations no Palestinian state was created. And then after wars Palestinians lost land that had initially been in their control.

I think while some do still claim the land for religious reason, most argue the land is rightfully Israeli because of the mandate, then Palestinian refusals for negotiations, or land acquired by war.

Answer 3

The belief is based on religious and historical ground. On the one hand, the monotheistic religions acknowledge this fact, vis-a-vis their use of the Old Testament. Historically speaking, it's been confirmed by numerous genetic studies, the fact that 2000+ yr old synagogues have been found in Israel (I challenge anyone here to find a 2000yr old mosque in Israel), and by the Dead Sea Scrolls. If none of this were the case, then we might as well have agreed to be settled into Alaska or Uganda.

Personally, I have no problem with a Palestinian state, so long as they stop calling for Israel's destruction (and acting towards this end). I think it's a concession well worth making (i.e., creation of an independent Palestinian state) if they leave us alone in peace.

Answer 4

Lillifane says:
"The claim is based on the fact that Jews have lived in the area continuously for several thousand years.
The various Hebrew tribes migrated to the area and conquered it much as is described in the Bible. " ...
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But conquest by miitary force is doomed in the long run, because the conqueror has to keep up his expensive occupation. No society can do this forever.

The only real solution is assimilation. The Normans occupied England but after a few centuries there is no more distinction between the Saxons and the Norman invaders. They merged to create a new society, the English, and it was very successful.

If the Israeli Jews intend to still be there in a hundred years they will have to assimilate with the Palestinian population. This means equal rights for all, and no more ethnic or religious discrimination or favoring of one segment of society. Then they will have to face the reality that someday they will live under a Palestinian prime minister. That may seem unlikely now, yet that's also what the Afrikaners thought. Sooner or later Israel needs a statesman like Nelson Mandela to guide them into a future of equal rights under law, free from apartheid. Israel cannot and should not survive as a Jewish state - it must be an Israeli state, existing for the benefit of all the people who live under its rule including those in the Occupied Territories who must be given the vote in Israel's government if they remain under the shadow of Israeli guns.

And face it, in the long run there will have to be intermarriage. Just as the Normans mingled with the Saxons to produce a new kind of people, the Jews who choose to remain in Israel will need to give up their separateness and integrate their society.

Certainly there have been Jews living there for centuries, but so what? The region was ruled by Byzantine Christians for a long time. And the Crusaders under Godfrey established the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem, a Christian state which lasted ninety years. But they did not integrate there. Instead they built walls around themselves to keep the indigenous people out, much as Israel has its wall today. If the Jews imagine that the fact that there were some Jews living there long ago validates their present domination, then they must accept that the Christians have just as valid a claim to live in and to rule over that region.

It is not antisemitic to question the existence of Israel. Every state on earth is a human creation, and rightly subject to ongoing criticism. Israel is a state, so it is not excused from the same critical evaluation as any other state. Antisemitism is hostility to the Jewish people (along with the other seventeen ethnic groups who are also Semites). As to Judaism, that is a religion, not an ethncity and not a state, and every religion should be criticized and its assumptions questioned endlessly. No religion should ever be held immune from criticism.

Forming a Palestinian state is a bad idea. It just separates people who should instead start integrating. If a new Palestinian state is created, then there's a good chance that Hezbollah will move in. And then there's nukes. If Israel has a right to possess nuclear weapons, then the same right must apply to all other states including the putative new Palestinian state. This is an ugly prospect.

I predict that creating a Palestinian state instead of pursuing integration and equal rights for all would lead to a much worse and dangerous and unstable condition in the region. Instead of building a Bantustan-type Palestinian state to separate the Palestinians from the Jews, let Israel commit itself to democracy, to equal rights for all its people, and to integration.

The good news is that a fully-integrated secular Israel could then become a beacon to the world, an island of justice and equality of all, with no more of the segregation which naturally stirs up the hatred of its neighbors. Prosperous, open and secure, that new Israel would then at last be at peace with its neighbors, trade freely with them all, help them develop their natural resources, and bring prosperity to itself and to all those countries.

Answer 5

These propoganda answers are too long to read. I'll keep it simple and short. A Jewish presence has always existed in Israel, from the first arrival from Egypt until the present day. While it is true that this was a small minority for much of history, it was still a presence. From a religious standpoint, the Bible states explicitly that the land was to be given to Abraham's descendants through Isaac, and through Isaac to Jacob and only Jacob. Jacob's descendants were the tribes of Israel, and thus biblically and religiously have the claim to Israel. From a historical standpoint, the nation of Israel owned all of Israel until the destruction of the temple in 586 BCE whereupon Israel came under Babylonian rule until 516 BCE when the first wave of Jews returned to re-establish autonomous Jewish rule of the area. This state continued until the Roman exile after the bar-Kochva revolt in the 2 century CE. It was not until the seventh century CE that Islam began and Israel came under muslim rule. During that time, Israel lay mostly desolate and de-populated until the return of Zionist Jews around the end of the 19th century.
From a more contemporary view, the Balfour declaration, issued to the Jews by the British government in 1917, stated Britain's support of a Jewish country on both banks of the Jordan river. While this will most likely never happen, or at least any time soon, in that area is included all of the contested areas.
From a practical point of view, there are over 20 muslim countries in the world, and 1 Jewish country. Israel absorbed all Jewish refugees from those countries following the founding of the state, while not one muslim country absorbed any refugees. Palestians have not shown a desire to form a stable, peace-oriented government, as shown by the attempted coup of Jordan, the election of Hamas in a land-slide victory, and current civil war.

One last point of information: the british did NOT encourage Jewish immigration to Israel post WW2. Despite Jews livelihoods being destroyed and having nowhere to go, the British refused entry to Jews, instead detaining those who attempted to enter in camps.

I don't think this ended up as short as I would have liked...

Answer 6

The claim that the state of Israel has to its current property is the same as any other nation.

To give you some background the area that currently makes up the state of Israel was owned by the British.

who took it from the Ottoman empire. who took it from some one else.

Here is a short list of groups that have owned Israel in the last 3,000 years.

Assyrian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, Roman, Byzantine, Sassanian, Hashmonim, Ottoman, British.

As you see the land has transfered many times.

As such when the last owners transfered the land it owned to the new state of Israel it became just like the other dozen groups that controlled the area before it.

Answer 7

If you keep going back to history you will not be able to solve the problem. I believe what everyone should do no is deal with the current situation.

What happened 60 years ago is not relevant anymore. Both parties committed mistakes. I believe its time to take brave decisions and solve the problem in a practical way.

Answer 8

To
start the debate from religious and historical point of view we all by logic say that ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL BY GOD
Palestinians are Christians and Muslims the HOLY LAND IS FOR ALL GOD PEOPLE JEWS [sph +shik} AND PALESTINIAN CHRISTIAN AND MUSLIMS. So to call the holy land a Jewish land or a Muslim or Christian is baseless its God land for all.
fact 2. Is the UN created both Palestine and Israel in the same resolution 181.
The old holy land is not like the Americas where settlers uprooted the natives by wars and put them to live on reservation. Israeli VS Palestine is on going conflict where the Palestinian never gave up there clam to the land and most live in Palestine. There are many UN resolution that call clearly for a Palestinian state.
Today the issue is Israel VS the world where Israel want to keep occupying land that was never part of Israel and there is no single nation that support the Israeli occupation of that land.
The Israeli lobby in Washington policy is made to support the Israeli occupation policy by all means and any country in the middle east is seen as treat to the Israeli occupation policy must be taken by force like we saw in Iraq and now we have the Iran and Syria war next. The Israeli lobby new Middle east policy is wars and civil wars every where so can the world forget about occupation.
The role of Israelis and Palestinians who want to live in peace is to stop that madness policy of wars and killings of both poor Israelis and poor Palestinians they both need our help to have a peaceful middle East.

Answer 9

Quick answer....Selfish Greed!
They claim the land is theirs, but up until the british gave the land to the Jews, it was mostly palestinian occupied.
The palestinian towns were demolished, and the palestinians had to travel on foot hundrends of miles with the elderly and small children in the hot sun. Lots of palestinians died on the way.
Eventually they were forced to live in refugee camps. That doesnt sound too fair to me.
Cant the Jews survive without oppressing others?
Let it be known they "ARE" the oppressors in this situation.

Answer 10

The claim is based on the fact that Jews have lived in the area continuously for several thousand years.

The various Hebrew tribes migrated to the area and conquered it much as is described in the Bible.

The Jews remained in varying numbers over the millennia since then under the rule of a variety of foreign powers from the Greeks and Romans to the Ottoman Turks and the English.

The issue is not one of "giving" the land to the Jews but simply a question of whether the Jews who already owned the land would be able to have the right to self-determination.

The boundries of the Jewish state created by the United Nations were determined by examining who lived where and allowing areas with a majority Jewish populationj to constitute themselves a self governing state.

But the Arabs refused to accept this and, in defiance of international law. declared war on the newly formed Israel.

Arabs armies numbering in the tens of thousand with professionally trained, professionally led, and professionally armed troops then attacked the Jews throwing tanks and fighter planes against civilians, including women and children, armed with makeshift weapons and no training.

The unanimous opinion of professionals everywhere was that the Jewish state would be obliterated in days.

Naturally, the Jews won. The mighty armies of the Arabs were beaten like dogs by a handful of Jews, many of them women and children.

In the subsequent Arab attempts to destroy Israel they Arabs lost more and more land. That land belongs to the Israelis by the right of conquest.