To everyone(Specificly theists and atheists)?

Question

Based on the survey I conducted 15 minutes ago, it is safe to say that even if God Himself appeared before an Atheist, the atheist would think he's nuts before believing there is a God.

Considering the God is an all-knowing God, he would already know the atheist would still reject him,

So hypothetically speaking, if God does exists, is it plausible for him to think this way:

"Forget it, even if I appear in front of you, you'd still think I don't exist. What's the point if even I you deny, how can you believe the other hints. Therefor, it is pointless for me to appear in front of you, because no matter what you will not believe."


So hypothetically if God does exist, the reason he wouldn't show himself in front of an atheist because no matter what, the atheist just wouldn't believe. If the atheist would believe, the hints would be enough and He wouldn't have the need to appear.

Is this statement plausible?

Sometimes I think it's weird, if Atheists would like a logical explaination of God, while God basicly could create something out of nothing because well, He is God, that's already illogical,

so it's really like solving 1+1 without using math.

This is however, my opinion.

Just like algebra.

x+y = 2.

Note: Atheists, I'm not asking you to believe in God. I'm just asking do you agree or do you disagree, that is all.

When I said hypothetically....think of it like algebra.

Okay, so if God did appeared on the David Letterman show, this ultimately prove the existence of God, to everyone. And this would be a divine intervention.

So if this did happen, based on human behaviour, would you agree if humans would demand more divine intervention, until the point of total dependance to God?

Considering that God is all-knowing, he would know how to convince. But what if logically there is no way to convince the atheist? Just like the dice, no matter how you throw it, no matter how many times, it will not appear as 7.

The only way is to forcefully alter your mind, but that would already be againts your will, which violates the fact that humans have free will.

A powerless God you say? A powerless God, or an all-knowing God who knows it is pointless to do so, just like trying to put your bare hands on fire for a long time without getting burnt.

It's merely perspective.

Answer 1

I disagree with your summary of the answers you got.

Most people basically said that the answer would depend on whether God offered proof that He was who He said He was. They would first strive to eliminate all other possibilities. That is a perfectly rational answer.

Think about it. If you went to some undiscovered island of primitives and claimed to be their God, should they believe you without question? If they asked for proof, and you pulled out a Bic lighter and said "see, I can do miracles." Should they then be convinced, and bow down before you? Any sufficiently advanced technology would appear to be a miracle.

So the athiest is right to be skeptical in your scenario.

So you are not being fair when saying that "no matter what, the athiest just wouldn't believe." That is a statement of limitation on God! ... that God would be unable to persuade us, even if He really tried.

In other words, if you believe that God is omnipotent, then you have to believe that God could reveal Himself, and prove who He was, if He so chose. The only reason He has not done so, is that He has chosen not to.

What you are expressing is the attitude of a hopeless God, a frustrated God, a despairing God ... in short, a powerless God.

The God I have in mind would not be such a petulant wimp as the one you are describing.

Answer 2

This is without a question one of the more interesting arguments I've ever seen. My only real problem with your logic here is that I really think it depends on what you mean by God showing himself. If God went on Letterman, said Hey...yo....I'm here...watch me turn water into wine.....started a new age of miracles where EVERYONE saw him.....I am sure every agnostic and/or atheist would believe at that point.

If God appeared to more people in general, we'd have an easier time accepting the possibility.

If I expereinced something, I don't know how I would react. It's one of those things that you don't know until it happens.

I will trust my senses as long as I have no real reason to doubt them.

I can only answer this for me....but look around you....most people I know are at least pretending to be somewhat dependant on him anyway. I think this really all depends on what type of God it is. You are also assuming the existence of a Judeo-Chrsitian God...there are other possibilities.

Answer 3

If a rainbow-pooping unicorn appeared in front of you, you would probably think you were nuts before believing in unicorns. The idea of an interfering all-powerful god is incompatible with how we understand the universe to work, so logically I should assume that one doesn't exist. If one appears to exist, it is probably a problem with my perception.


Edit: looks like I missed the boat. Now that I reread your question, that argument makes sense. I've actually heard that argument used for why god doesn't perform Old Testament-style miracles and reveal himself. Actually, I think that statement is from the New Testament. It makes sense and it's impossible to argue with it.


Edit2: no, wait, I can argue with that. If god were to swoop out of the sky and fulfill all of the prophesies in the bible, no matter how much sense that doesn't make, everyone would have to believe in him eventually. Or at least believe that there is something that causes humans to perceive that there is something that resembles the idea of god from the bible. That's just how people work: we believed that the world was flat, then someone pointed out that it was round, and now we all believe it to be round. Except for the Flat Earth Society, which makes excuses to rationalize the perception of a round earth when it is actually flat. Only if god were to reveal himself, the Flat Earth Society-style organization that would form to refute it would be right, so they would be like the heroes in the movie The Matrix.

Answer 4

God is in the present, past and future! He knows what will happen, basically! He gave everyone choices, He didn't want string puppets as friends! We can make many different choices for each situation that we encounter so if God had to appear right in front of an athiest God knows what will happen in the end but it's the athiest's choice what to do right then and there!

Answer 5

ok, you won't be in a position to assert you believe that there's no God and then say which you're actually not "denying" his existence. in case you deny that something exists, you're saying that it would not exist. in case you do no longer believe in a god, then you definately say he would not exist. Ergo, you're denying God. existence is tremendously sparkling-shrink. something the two exists or it would not. exceptionally for non-corporeal beings; you the two believe it exists, so which you settle for it, or you do no longer believe it exists, and as a result deny its existence. do no longer play this off as a count of semantics. i do no longer think in a greater robust potential because of the fact i won't think of that there is a few greater effective being available controlling each thing. this is too severe for my options. I even have been an atheist for years, yet i latterly took a philosophy type that asked a significant question: If God is an all seeing, all understanding, and an all forgiving being (via repentance, and so on.) then how can he be certain the way you spend something of ETERNITY consistent with movements comprehensive in a count of 70 years? looks immensely unjust. And in case you relatively think of roughly basically how long eternity is, then would not it seem somewhat rash? And if God is all-understanding, would not he see the effect formerly? basically some recommendations. i actually believe that each and each single individual has each ideal to believe in what- or whomever that they had like. this is basically no longer something i believe.

Answer 6

Well, it seems that you think that God would actually be interested in joining these silly debates we have. If I were God (sorry for this one, I know its a bit disrespectlul) I would think that such discussions were beneath me. I am God, I am here for you, you can chose to let me in or not, but I am not going to tag behind you, appear to you, beg you to recognize me. God is all around us, you can chose to see him or not. Remember, the true suffering is not Hell with fire and brimstone, its being robbed of his presence. There you go, you don't want him, then don't have him. I just don't understand why people need churches, priests, and holy communions to feel close to him. He is all around to us, and would love you all the same if you prayed to tree instead of a cross. In fact, he was much more directly involved in the creation of a tree, so chances are he would hear you much better.

Answer 7

If God is truly all-knowing, and also all-powerful, then He could figure out a way to prove Himself to atheists in a way they could accept. (Remember, He's supposed to be a lot smarter than we are.) Your proposition has God acting like a petulant child who gives up before He even tries, which is not compatible with His supposedly infinite patience and grace.

Answer 8

Interesting question, it makes me wonder how many people who believe in God would believe it if God himself appeared in front of them, or if they would think the person claiming to be God was just a nut, too? I think a lot of "believers" would discount God's presence, just like many "believers" would not believe Jesus when he appeared to his followers.

Answer 9

Based on another question *I* asked, if atheists had PROOF, then they would believe. But I concede that for some people, simply appearing isn't enough. It's easy for people to hallucinate, and hallucination is easier to believe in God. Plus, God doesn't appear for ANYONE, so why would he bother appearing for someone who doesn't believe in him?

Answer 10

An omnipotent and omniscient deity would know what must be done to be able to override the atheist's inclination to blame his deviant observations on hallucination.

I'm willing to believe pending evidence. I've even clearly defined multiple times the evidence I would consider sufficient. Never has such evidence shown itself.

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There has never been the slightest proof that humans have free will, and quite a great deal of evidence that we do not.

So a deity should not let the issue of free will trouble it.