Having your cake and eating it too?

Question

I see a lot of Christians pointing out "bad" people that were atheists.

Yet whenever someone points out a mass murderer / Spanish Inquisitioner / crusader who was a Christian and killed lots of innocent people, they always say "Well, they weren't REALLY a Christian or they wouldn't do those things."

Yet, if you believe in Jesus, and worship Jehovah, and follow the Bible, and kill people because of it (like they did in the BIble, lest we forget), how is it fair to say that person wasn't Christian? A Christian is a follower of Christ, period.

Is there a name for this logical fallacy of slandering others by association yet refusing to allow the same criticism to be applied to your religion by "disowning" anyone who makes you look bad? I've been trying to put a name to it, but Wiki is coming up blank.

Answer 1

Both the accusation (here against Atheists) and the disowning (of similar Christian examples) are forms of the logical fallacy "biased sample".

Answer 2

Well to be honest, even though the Bible has killing in it, tells of "holy wars", and has the occasional "Just" killing of a blatant sinner; this is exclusively in the old testament and is not nor should it be, taught by Christianity.

For things like the crusades, Inquisition, etc, that happened 500 to 1000+ years ago, I really don't see what the bearing on Christianity is. I guess to my mind they're similiar to the "protestant/chatholic" problems in Ireland, that was labeled as a "religious" conflict but was not really about religion.

For mass murderers, etc... well IF there is an after life, then we'll find out whether they were or weren't.

A religion or moral system should be mostly judged on its teachings, and to a lesser extent on how well its followers live up to those teachings -- for the simple reason that anyone can say that they are a beleiver in "some religion" and then do what ever they are going to do.

Answer 3

I always find it more challenging to play the devil's advocate in matters of haphazardly applied dogma but I'll give it a shot...

The law of large numbers would indicate (to anyone with a mind for fairness) that there are good and bad people across the cultural landscape. From a Athiest's perspective a little honesty should dictate that there is no moritorium on belief among those with socially damaging tendencies. From the Christian's perspective the same frank discussion should stipulate that people can be kind, generous, honest and productive without embracing any faith at all.

I suggest that at the heart of your paradox is the idea of moral absolutes (i.e. he must not have met Jesus because he was still a bad person who did bad things). While a basic sense of fairness makes it rational for you to ask the question, the Christians don't have a corner on this market. It is a recognized part of group dynamics (in order for there to be an us, there must be a them and there must be some criteria for differentiating between the two). For example several years ago we used to hear things like, "If he were a real Republican he could never have voted for Clinton."

To be fair I think that Christians get beat up pretty bad in our culture. They're just people like you and me who aspire to a standard that none of us can meet. Their aparent contradictions give the public the impression that they are leading with their chin (and sometimes they are). All I am saying is, until you've done some time in their faith, experienced what must be the soul crushing let downs of their most prominant leaders and devoted your life to something greater than yourself it's hard to know their motivation. At the end of the day it is probably nothing more malignant than the value judgments the rest of us exercise every day.

Answer 4

It isn't fair to say that a person insn't or wasn't a christian because i belive being a christian is a personal relationship with God. But what you have to realize is that people make mistakes and they do things for the wrong reasons sometimes but to say that beacuse somebody was killing someone for differnent beliefs makes them not a christian is wrong. You might try the word excommunicate which means to excleude from the right of the church. You might also try hippocrit (i can't spell that word) I am not sure that was what u were asking for but whatever. :)

Answer 5

Ah, but you see, Christianity has evolved since the days of the Inquisition and the Crusades, and is no longer the hateful, bigoted, self-righteous religion it...

I'm sorry, I really thought I was going to make it through that without laughing. Let me try again.

Christianity has evolved to recognize that the people killed during the Inquisition aren't evil, but need to be saved, except of course, witches, who still should not be suffered to live...

I'm sorry, I just can't write a response to this with a straight face. They just don't want to take responsibility for their actions. That's why Jesus died for their sins, after all.

Whew! Made it. ;-)

)O(

Answer 6

The Bible teaches "Thou shalt not kill" If your not following the Bible then you are not a Christian. The definition of a Christian is one who follows Christ. Jesus taught to "Love your neighbor"

Note that the Old Testiment is included in the Christian Bible because of the 40 prophesies of the coming of Christ, but it is actually part of the Jewish religion. Only the New testiment reflects the teachings of Christ.

Answer 7

It's called Christianity

Answer 8

Wars were fought in the OT alone, and were fought because at that time God's spirit was still with His people. God has the right to condemn those He himself created. He protected His people against those attacking them, and in some cases He handed out judgment against those who were living in rebellion against Him. Jesus Christ as the Messiah fulfilled the law under which Jews had been subject. Wars initiated by man were never condoned and Christ will end them with his Second Coming.

Answer 9

We don't judge other christian people or non-christian people. That's God job! He's the ultimate judge. The people who go against God's word are not his followers. Never in the Bible did God make someone kill someone. When people say, "I did it because God told me to" then they're lying. It's psychological problems. If a christian is judging someone then they are going against God's word.

Answer 10

because it's really annoying to a person to be told by people who for the most part are making gross generalizations that their God and their faith is responsible for ALL the killings and brutality and anything BAD that has ever happened.
Most of the historical events referred to were the doing of the Catholic Church and their power-hungry clergy. The God I worship called those type of people by some very strong language. Those people used their position of power to obtain more power. That is the antithesis of everything Christ stands for and taught. If you'd dust off your Bible and read it before making such smug comments, maybe you'd see that.