why do vegeterians insist they are helping animals?

Question

this question is for vegetarians and vegans
i was wondering why vegetarians and vegans believe that avoiding animal meat helps the animals. in nature, animals higher on the food chain eat animals lower on the food chain. thus, is it not natural for humans, who are at the upper end of the food chain, to eat other animals? are vegetarians/vegans against the raising and processing methods of the animals? so would they eat animal meat if the animals it were "naturally" raised or "organic"?
this question is not to offend anyone in any way. just wondering.

Answer 1

Yea, it's not helping any animals: for a start the meat industry is booming at the moment; secondly if enough people went veggie to actually affect the industry at all, and the demand for meat decreased, it would mean animals which were surplus to requirement. You're kidding yourself if you think that would mean they'd live happily ever after, as they couldn't be sold no one would want to keep them, and they'd still be slaughtered.
Think about it, the second farmers couldn't sell their livestock, the second they couldn't make a profit, they wouldn't keep them any more. Keeping animals isn't cheap, and to keep them, without profit, would be hugely expensive to any farmer. How many do you reckon would be prepared to make that kind of loss?
Now, what'd happen then? Maybe a few wild pigs or goats would stay alive, but for the most part it would be impossible to release them into the wild. The vast majority would have to be slaughtered.

Vegetarianism doesn't save any animal's lives at all, it just disassociated people from the animal's deaths, and frankly they're fools if they think otherwise.

I quote "If no one were allowed to farm animals, farms would grow crops instead. The first thing to go would be all the animals. Once the rural landscape were rid of cattle, sheep, and the like, fields would get larger, for the convenience of the combine harvesters, and hedgerows would go. Wild animals like rabbits would now be a more major pest. No farmer would want animals eating the plants, and so the war on such animals would intensify. Grown in the fields would be domesticate species of food crops, and so the number of plant species would decline."

Domestication is one of the best things that can happen to animals. If the golden eagle tasted any good you can bet your life it wouldn't be nearly extinct.

I quote "In the wild, a sheep would have to look for food, compete for it, jockey for position in the herd, look out for predators, guard its offspring, and it one day would die because of some accident, perhaps a fall, some nasty illness, or it would become weak and have its throat ripped out by the local predators. By striking contrast, the life of a farmed sheep is rather different. A farmed sheep has complete protection from predators; all the food of exactly its favourite kind at its feet all day every day, for which it does not have to compete; no competition for mates; no need to guard offspring; free health care; free haircuts; it is very unlikely to die in childbirth, and unlikely to die a nasty death. True, half a ewe’s offspring are taken away and killed. However, in the wild, a ewe would lose most of its offspring anyway, and in nastier circumstances. By the standards of the natural wild, a sheep’s life is about as cushy as a life could possibly be."

This is true, animals in the wild invariably die violent, painful deaths deaths. The closest an animal will get to dying of old age is being picked by a predator because it it old and therefore an easier to target. Wild animals are often malnourished, diseased and are in constant fear on other animals. Farmed animals invariably lead happier, healthier, less stressful lives than those in the wild.

@ bja_faithandmisery, humans are designed to eat meat. No scientist worth his salt thinks otherwise.

-You're right, a lion doesn't need a knife or gun, but that we do not have claws, talons, or incisors to hunt proves nothing. When early hominids ate meat they scavenged it, as vultures do, using their fingers and tools to get the sinews and meat other animals couldn't. It was only after that that they began to hunt the meat themselves, and only much later they began to cook it. It is interesting that even now if someone was brought up eating raw meat he would have no problem with it.
The last few million years of human evolution have revolved completely around tools. We used advanced stone tools long before we began to hunt our own meat, and as such there was no need for evolution to bestow us with large claws or teeth to kill prey.
Nonetheless, if you go to some of the very primitive bush hunters of Africa, they hunt animals by chasing them until they collapse of exhaustion, and only then kill them with a spear. Numerous other societies use just spears to hunt, and there was a time in our history when we would have hunted with what are essentially small rocks. Human's are very able to hunt, with teaching, with very primitive tools, the real weapons we have behind us are intelligence and teamwork, and there is extensive evidence that shows that without hunting meat, we would never have developed either of these things to the extent that we did, because plant eaters do not need the large brains hunters do.

-Also, humans have eaten meat for thousands of years and in that time have killed many animals. A hundred years ago vegetarianism hardly existed, and a few hundred years before that there was a time when most people would have killed their own animals. There is no problem in the human mind with killing animals. Today however most of us live cushy lives far away from the farms of the world, and the death of animals is something most people are unused to, and thus many people would hate it. I say many people, because I think the vast majority of men, and a good proportion of women, detached from the slaughter as most of us are now, would still be able to kill a chicken when asked without 'freaking', many without batting an eyelid.
Ever notice how vegetarianism is much more common in towns and cities than rural areas? Was everyone living on a farm like they once did, and brought up around animals, I don't think vegetarianism would be at all common.

- Human's teeth resemble those of herbivores in that we have molars. Very true. Of course, that we are omnivores and molars are needed to chew plants, that is no surprise. We also have canines which, while small, are useful for eating meat, and perfectly adept. They are sharp, whereas herbivores only have shape canines if they need them for defence.
As anyone who has ever eaten meat will know, out teeth are perfectly well adapted to eating it.

-Your arguments make no sense. Humans used to go out every day and catch their meat, but then with the advent of agriculture they found it was much easier to just raise the animals themselves.
By your logic eating plants is unnatural because we have to grow it in fields, we should just go out and gather what food we can find.

-Our bodies do not reject raw meat, although you may have problems if you've been brought up eating cooked meat from birth. There are many primitive societies where raw meat is eaten, and they do not suffer the diseases we might catch were we to eat meat raw because their bodies are used to it.
I have to say, I have on occasion eaten meat that was mostly raw, and I know people who've eaten completely raw meat, all without any problems at all (campfires are such wonderful things). That fact is you are quite likely to get food poisoning if you eat it raw, but you probably won't.

-Our intestines are long, like (but not as long as) herbivores, because we need to digest plants, which needs a long intestine. Carnivores do not need a long intestine as meat is easier to digest and they can get by with a smaller one. They do not have smaller ones because meat needs to be passed through quickly, as meat is not toxic to them (nor us) in any way. It's digestion does create chemicals which are toxic, yes, but it is a tribute to just how well we have been designed to eat meat that our bodies are able to dispose of them without any adverse effects.

-And goVeg is one of Peta's propaganda sites, and quite untrustworthy on the horrors of meat eating front.
Pigs are irrefutably omnivores, and they have long intestines too.

Answer 2

"helps the animals"

- Because generally not eating animals is a good step in the right direction toward helping animals. It is hard to help an animal that digesting in your stomach. Seriously though, simple laws of supply and demand state that less demand will equal less supply, which obviously means less killing of animals for food. Admittedly, Vegetarians and Vegans are too small of a minority to make a sizeable difference yet, but every bit counts.

"In nature, animals higher on the food chain eat animals lower on the food chain. thus, is it not natural for humans, who are at the upper end of the food chain, to eat other animals?"

- First of all humans have removed themselves from the food chain by creating mass produced food. Factory farming is man removing himself from the food chain. Even family farming of strictly vegetables could be considered an attempt to remove ourselves. Farming of any kind is not "natural".
Second, if I toss you into a cage with a lion, your lunch. If you are really on top of the food chain then you should be able to kill that lion with your bare hands. In addition, animals on top of the food chain are scarce; they are carnivores that compete heavily for food. Doesn't sound like many human's situation does it?

"are vegetarians/vegans against the raising and processing methods of the animals?"

- Yes.

"so would they eat animal meat if the animals it were "naturally" raised or "organic"?"

- The thing you must understand about the two words you use above is that legally they mean almost nothing when it comes to how the animals are treated. Nor do words like free range. Personally, and I would assume many Vegans would agree, I would not eat an animal no matter how well it was raised because I don't believe animals are ours to use in any way. I believe animals have the right no to be treated as things.

"this question is not to offend anyone in any way. just wondering."

- Not offensive at all, they are valid questions, I hope I could help.

Answer 3

I don't "insist" on anything, first of all. I've been a vegetarian for 30 years and have never imposed my will on anyone. Neither of my two kids is a vegetarian.

That said, I like to think we've come a long way since cave man days, that God gave us brains in addition to mouths and stomaches.

I am able to feed myself with a variety of good tasting foods in a healthy manner without eating meat. And how does one say, "I love this species, I enjoy it as a pet or companion, but this one I'll eat?"

The way most animals are raised is horrific. And yes, I buy from companies that have humane practices for the rest of the family.

Answer 4

Humans put themselves on the top of the food chain because they feel they have power over animals that are defenseless. Compare the human to a lion, who is also near the top. Does a lion need to have a gun or knife to kill an animal? No, of course not. They leap at their prey and rip it apart with their teeth. Humans do not have teeth to do this, in fact, our teeth resemble those of herbivores. When people say that "well other animals kill other animals" this has nothing to do with humans. Lions have an instinct to, as I said before, leap at their prey and rip it limb from limb. Humans would not do this (unless mentally disturbed) and would probably freak if anyone asked them to kill their own chicken. If humans were naturally supposed to eat meat, we would not have to raise the animals for food. We would go out and kill them with our own hands everyday, and we would also eat them raw. There are no ovens out in the safari, face it. Humans cannot digest raw meat well--our bodies reject it. That's why we have to cook it, because we can't handle the huge amount of bacteria that is in the raw meat. Lions and other natural carnivores CAN handle the bacteria because their stomachs provide what is needed to fight it. Another point needed to change your mind? Our intestines are over 8 times the size of our body lengths, with is about the same as other herbivores. The reason? Plants take a long time to be broken down because the cell wall that surrounds the cells. We need the long intestines in order to break this down, and we have them. Carnivores (as well as natural omnivores) have much shorter intestines because meat needs to pass through their system very quickly. Humans can be extremely effected by the amount of time meat passes through their long intestines (it is actually proven to be linked to colon cancer, which vegans and vegetarians have a 40% less risk of getting than meat eaters) because there are so many toxins in meat that are staying in your body, which was never designed to be able to handle them. I am posting the link to a site which has all this information and more.

But to answer you question on whether or not I would eat the meat if it was organic and naturally raised, no I would not. If I wanted to I could, because I could get meat from my uncle who owns a small farm, but I am against the slaughter of animals and against the usage of animals for any other reason besides companionship. I am also vegan, however, for health and environmental reasons.

Answer 5

As a species, humans consider themselves, for the most part, "civilized" in that we are above nature and are not "wild" like animals are. We believe that we are better than wild animals because we can rationalize and make logical choices and are not forced to do the "wild" things that many animals do, including cannibalism, rape, infanticide and others. It's weird then, that when discussing vegetarians, so many people who so adamantly believe that humans aren't wild for a reason, will so instinctively clutch to the nature argument and say that it is "a part of nature" and something humans have ALWAYS done. If humans really consider themselves civilized and above being "wild" like our animal relatives, then the argument that animals eat meat too and animals kill other animals isn't valid.

Also, just because it is natural doesn't necessarily mean we should do it. Infanticide occurs in nature and we obviously know well enough that we shouldn't do it that we ban it from society. Rape occurs in nature and we also look down upon that. I'm not comparing eating meat to those two offenses as if they are equal, but just showing that an argument for a "natural" action to be automatically condoned by society isn't necessarily the best.


EDIT - Also, the concept of the food chain is a gross oversimplification of what should be more accurately described as a food web. It is not simply a wolf eats sheep, sheep eats grass kind of linear relationship when it comes to our ecosystem. Humans are not "on top" of the food chain because it is simply impossible to be "on top." To think of nature as a food chain ignores so many things, it's unbelievable.

Answer 6

I've said it once, I'll say it a thousand times. I'm not a vegetarian (technically pescatarian) because of the animals. I eat this way for myself.

I started being vegetarian after spending a weekend with a group of vegans. I came home from that weekend feeling the healthiest I had felt in a long long time. I've since switched to a pescatarian diet (no red meat or poultry, just fish) because living and therefore eating on campus at my university doesn't make it easy to give up meat entirely. (They don't reliably serve alternate sources of protein, and hardly a wide variety of vegetables or fruit.)

As far as the whole argument as to whether or not vegetarianism is healthy, humans "needing" meat, it's natural... well, think about this. Before you could buy meat at a reasonable price any day at the supermarket, people didn't necessarily eat meat everyday. Lots of veggies were eaten, and they survived just fine! Only about 9% of our diets should be protein-- 2 servings a day, both servings roughly the size of a deck of cards. I think it'd be safe to bet that most people (in America, at least) eat more meat than that in one day. And that is completely disregarding any other source of protein you might have.

No, I'm not trying to convince you to be a vegetarian. Believe me, it's not a necessarily easy thing to do. Just know that a lot of vegetarians aren't doing this to save the animals. We're just saving our bodies.

Answer 7

Lots of reasons. We may have evolved as predators, but I don't think buying meat or ordering a burger is quite the same as when we had to catch our own food to survive. I was raised by non-vegetarians who loved animals. I just took it to the next level. I originally stopped eating red meat for health reasons, then gradually cut out everything else. There are plenty of healthy veg choices for protein http://www.mypyramid.gov/pyramid/vegetarian.html.
I just don't want to contribute to killing animals.

Answer 8

I agree with your statement. I have vegetarian friends who say they don't eat the meat because of the way they are prepared, I mean tortured. In the Animal Kingdom, they aren't so much tortured as instantly murdered, put out of their misery. But it's all a matter of opinion as to who does what why.

Answer 9

-Some Vegggies just don't like the taste of meat

-some have been brought up to believe that eating meat is not an acceptable practice

-some people are trying to avoid the fats associated with red meat

-some are aware of the poor sanitation invloved in meat processing

-some don't like the way that the animals are being treated

-some are rebelling

-some have a thousand other reasons

Answer 10

There are heaps of reasons. Some of them social and economic, some of the environmental (sheep and cattle are very bad for some enviroments). So people object to 'meat as manufacture' where animals are treated as products rather than animals.

The growing and consumption of meat is hugely costly in terms of resource use vs calories returned. Some folks find it greedy and unjust to be so wasteful feeding grain to cattle when there are millions of folks starving on the planet.

Keep in mind that people who are vegetarian make that choice for a 1000 different reasons. There is not vegie club with rules as such.

oh, i eat meat too btw...

Answer 11

Some well intentioned moves do far more harm than good. Ie loss of fur trade makes the animals habitat worthless in dollars. result it is drained and sold for cottages, condos etc

Most is diasterous and least understood is the seal hunt, cod ban combination both are now endangered (health wise) by fluctuating supply demand, disease, starveation patterns