Friendly atheists, how do you explain this?

Question

If there is nothing truely spiritual, mysterious, and divine about the universe, and mankind is truely soul-less and alone, how do you explain the fact that every culture man has founded has made religion part of that experience? Why has there never been an atheist culture?

If you're inclined to say that cultures before did not have science to rely upon, I would suggest to you that science and religion do not fulfill the same purpose, and most of history's great scientists were religious.

I feel as if some of you have misunderstood my intentions. I am not a member of any organized religion, and do not have a dogmatic axe to grind. I simply find this to be an interesting fact and want to know how atheists come to terms with this given their beliefs. Atheist fundamentalism seems popular given the venom in several of the responses, but I suppose if you felt I was attacking you with the question, that is understandable.

As to the distinction between the roles of science and religion, let me explain my point of view. Religion is fundementally about behavior. Any religion's goal is to dictate the proper behavior of human beings to be in most harmony with the universe, usually based on the supposed role of humanity within a particular cosmological model. Science is fundementally the study of the mechanics of reality to figure out how it all works. Our relationship to that universe, beyond the mechanical level, is inconsequential and therefore very different from religion.

Answer 1

A friendly atheist can almost more be an agnostic like me. I have met many tue atheist and they are not much differant than anyone else. Why are they atheist, because they were born and live in eastern germany where they were all mostly raised that way by law.

They are not evil and it is just not an organized thng because there is no need to organize a disbeleif as their is a beleif. There is only hatred in that and i do not think most atheist are haters or bad people. SOME would even beleive if they saw a miiracle with their own eyes.

SOme like me beleive in energy is life and that is what the soul is made of, living energy condensed in a human shell or batter that withers away in time like a duracell and that energy just disperses back into the cosmic ring of energy awaiting new life eithe rin a human, a battery, or what ever. Energy is alive as far as i am concerned and can be intelligent if concentrated like it is with humans.

Answer 2

Because humanity does not like unanswered questions. Every mystery we come across, no matter how obscure or inexplicable, will get an explanation, even if we don't have the means to determine the true explanation.

In the first days that people were capable of abstract thought, the world was full of mysteries, some of them very dangerous precisely because they were not understood or predictable. If a rational explanation is not available, an irrational one (such as magic) has to make do in the meantime. Storms appeared to be like some kind of tantrum, so it was assumed that someone powerful was angry. There were two options, teach the storm to behave by making imitative ritual moves, or appease the god responsible with some show of good faith, such as a sacrifice. If the act didn't work, you didn't do it right.

As humans became more sophisticated, they were able to abstract a little more and separate the storm god from the storm. Gods multipled in response to the growing complexity of the world humans found themselves in, growing from natural phenomena like water and seeds to human ones, such as hearths, doorways, and nations. The established pattern persisted until someone came up with the idea that a god need not be associated with any one thing. In fact, the most effective god would be universal, independent of any single duty.

If God isn't actually IN the flood or the earthquake, but merely controls them, the next step is to wonder if there is ANYTHING controlling them. As the mechanisms of weather, geology and the like become clear, the need for an invisible cause is superfluous. God is not angry, meteors just happen. This substantialy reduces God's jurisdiction to human moral activity, the etherial realms, and those purely supernatural events that still elude explanation.

Science starts with the premise that the current explanation for something may not be the best, and with persistence, the truth can be found. An invisible will is not a testable explanation and requires a great many untested assumption. If a simple mechanical explanation can be found and demonstrated, the need for supernatural explanation disappears. If an even simpler or more reliable model is found, that becomes the new explanation.

So why does religion persist? For one thing, all human cultures grow out of other human cultures. No culture, however artificial, operates without imported beliefs and biases. Traditions may transform but never quite disappear. Another is the result of an atheistic outlook. Without a hierarchy of being, there is no basis for human hierarchy. Every person is fundamentally equal. This suggests that democracy is the best way to make decisions. But pure democracy bogs down with constant decision making, the uncertainty of different options, and the changing whims of millions of individuals.

Compromises have to be made to prevent chaos, so authorities are chosen to make the big decisions. But what is the basis for qualification? Knowledge? Self-discipline? Compassion? And what do they decide? What is the purpose of a culture? Or of an individual? Or life? Science explains mechanisms, how things are as they are, not why they are. The best thing a secular outlook can do is maximize individual liberty as much as possible without people crashing into each other. But individuals can't make sure everyone is fed or healthy. Individuals can't build highways or power grids. Individuals can't explore the stars. How does one set priorities?

That's where religion comes back in. Religion is full of whys. Of course, different religions have different whys, and there's no proof that any of them are valid. But they help give some people direction. Religious people may find it easier to make the big decisions. But purpose implies there is some sort of validation, a reward for "right" decisions, punishment for "wrong" ones. That's another untestable assumption.

The scientific explanation for a poor outcome would be ignorance based on lack of experience, not the will of God. That requires more experience and some people don't want to wait or to risk another failure. They prefer an untested certainty. This isn't to say that religious codes aren't based on experience. (Some people say Jewish kosher law was based on the food hygiene of the time.) But science does not assume the religious explanation is the best or most useful.

The first "modern" scientists were religious because everyone was religious. It takes time to realize there are unanswered questions. Often a discovery makes new questions possible, questions that people didn't even know to ask, much less dare. The most profound breakthrough is often the discovery of ignorance.

Religion is all about explanations, stability, reassurance and the status quo. Science is about curiousity, investigation, danger, even a little sacrilege. Which is a more pleasant existence? Which is a more authentic existence? As long as there are still mysteries, there will be religion.

Answer 3

In my opinion, every culture has had religion for two reasons:

1. They did not have the scientific method or knowledge to determine the causes or reasons for things happening. That's why so many cultures thought the sun was a god, instead of a star. If you can't explain it, it must be divine. This by the way is what current "intelligent design" proponents do. Science cannot explain why the univere is here and the way it is, so it must have been created by God. At least that's the belief. But it's a false belief, because all it means is that science has not yet derived an explaination. It may take centuries, or never happen, but just because science can't currently explain it, doesn't mean it's divine.

2. There is something about people in that they wish very much for death not to be final. There is something basic in our psyches that makes us want to believe there is something better on the other end of death. That too transcends cultures. Religion hangs this carrot out for those people. I myself want for this to be true, very much. I have no desire to die and that be it. I want there to be something more, but I cannot intellectually believe it, because there is little in the way of evidence to support such a conclusion.

Answer 4

Early cultures needed a way to explain what was then unexplainable, so they created myths (or religion as you call it) to come up with answers for the questions.

These of course were not the correct answers, but answers none the less.

Edit - Your claim that religion is about behavior is partially true.

The point that you are missing is that the behavior control aspect came after the realization that these supernatural explanations for totally natural phenomenon instilled fear into people.

For example:
1. People did not know how this shiny orb (the sun) moves across the sky, so they made a story about a god pulling the sun across the sky behind a chariot.
2. People did not understand why people die, so they made up a story about Ra, the god of the underworld, the grim reaper, etc..
4. Some of the educated kings realized that people feared the gods of these stories and made stories declaring themselves as god-kings, like the Egyptians and several other cultures did.

This process went on and on along until finally, you have the Abrahamic religions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. All of these religions created stories that claim that not only does a god exist, but that he is the one and only god.

By their stories this god of Abraham creates an entire list of rules covering everything from a divine endorsement of slavery to instructing people to stone a woman to death for not screaming loud enough while she is being raped.

So you see, with this fear created by the stories, the people that wrote them could control the will of the people by twisting the story a bit until finally it is the horror story of do exactly as I say or I am going to torture you for all eternity.

But they started as simple stories to explain what they could not understand.

Answer 5

Pretty much every kid makes up an imaginary friend. Does that make the imaginary friends real? Now I know that you are going to say that god is their imaginary friend, but come on give some evidence about this.

Next up. Are you a socialogist that specializes in primative cultures? I bet not. If you were, then you would know that a primative culture does not know a lot about the world. They do know a lot of things and are not stupid but they do not understand everything. What makes thunder? Why do the rains come every spring? Why do some starts move so quickly in the night sky while others move so slowly? Why do we die? What is right, what is wrong? People will try to answer these with an imaginative explanation. It makes them feel better. This is the where religion is born. In these simple made up gods and spirits and so forth.

Finally, almost every culture has a story of vampires or werewolves. Asia, South America, Africa, Europe. Vampire and werewolf stories. Should we believe in them too?

Answer 6

There are plenty of atheist cultures. Just look at Europe. Religion has been a way for people to explain what they didn't understand - but we understand a lot more these days than they did. There's not much need for making up answers to things anymore, when we can actually try to understand why things happen the way they do.

Defining the universe as soul-less may seem bad to you, but basically it's just a word someone made up for something they couldn't prove and then decided it would be bad to be without it. I could tell you that every atheist has a krood, and you're obviously krood-less ... would that mean anything to you?

Of course science and religion fill the same places, since religion keeps thinking it can butt in and control science. Yes, many scientists were religious - many less now, that science can explain so much more, and religion seems to be nothing but getting in the way.

Answer 7

Religion evolved around us, in an environment in which people have an innate need to explain things.

It's hard to understand why anyone would think that the fact that people believe in gods and souls and things like that is evidence that those things actually exist. People believe all sorts of false things, as the internet makes abundantly clear. Human belief evaluation is notably flawed in certain consistent ways, and those include ways that are most helpful to the persistence of religious belief systems.

Notice that religious belief systems avoid overtly making claims that are too obviously false - like that prayers are always answered with "yes", or that animals can talk, or that people can perform miracles at will. A religion that held those beliefs would have a hard time attracting and retaining adherents. Instead, they promise rewards after death, and point to "miracles" that have already happened (which of course amounts to nothing as far as evidence goes).

Overall, the more you know about the world, the less interesting those religious claims are. That's particularly true when you come to understand the flaws in our belief formation and evaluation processes.

Answer 8

It is dopes like you that just spit out nonsensical statements that make the rest of the believers look foolish.
1) Please provide some actual evidence to prove the statement that there has never been an atheist culture. don't bother trying to prove this, I can think of 2 or 3 right off the top of my head.
2) How exactly do religion and science not fulfill the same purpose? Both are focused on understanding life and it's origins. Maybe you should work on understanding your own religion a little better before you start judging other peoples belief, or lack thereof.

Next time you think about suggesting some things, just keep your mouth shut. You aren't doing the real believers any service by spewing out this nonsense.

Answer 9

because when we still lived in caves we were amazed and afraid of women and the fact that life grew out of her. that's why the first religion worshipped mothers and we find little statues of a pregnant goddess everywhere. we developed god to explain what was mysterious to us, like where do we go after we die (very important question to us back then), what is life, etc. god could explain all of this and we didn't need scientific proof for it. just a religious leader who could "tap in" to god's thoughts. also, humans are by nature a pack animal. we have always lived in groups and will always. every group creates certain roles: a leader (usually also the peace and law keeper), a helper, a healer, and followers. now then, if the leader believes in god, so will the followers (in this microcosmic example, not necessarily applicable to today's LARGE groups). In general it was a way to bring the people together, quite by accident, but just the way we work. why else do you think we, even to this day, go to church? we listen to the leader and enjoy fellowship.

what you should ask yourself, instead, is why didn't every culture come up with the same god. if god were real, wouldn't he have made it clear to everyone? instead the jews were the only ones who got god (in, of course, the judeo-christian perspective) and everyone else got damned to hell. what a loving god that was! but why do most ancient cultures have many gods, some thousands, some fewer, and some have only 1?

Answer 10

well i'm agnostic but i will answer this question anyway alot of these cultures that have religion and some sort of god do so because there are things in this lifetime that they simply don't understand so they say a god did it or because it had to be some sort of miraculous thing that happened instead of looking at things from an open minded perspective and realizing that some things just happen and part of it has to do with the fear that they can't cope on their own and they feel the need to have an explanation so they say a god did it or whatnot