Bruce lee... great but not great?

Question

i know bruce lee was this and that, but people make big deal about him these days, whenever i ask people about bruce lee, they say that his fights were great in the movies and he is the best fighter ever, and i ask their source, they say someone else told them. bruce said himself that he fights differently on the street, so does anyone have any video to prove his figthing methods? the last fight he had was with sifu jack man and that was why the started jeet kune do, so where did he test it. i disagree with people going on about how he is the best fighter that ever lived, he was lucky to be alive in the 20th century, we saw some proof of his skills. but think how many other great people must have passed before him? or there may have been none? i disagree about him being the best fighter, but no one can deny some amazing skills he had, he had speed and he was fast, but he couldn't beat the whole world. so come to senses people, he was great, but not the best, anyway, a great person. bye

thanks for your replies ppl, thanks, but JOE T, can you prove that about bruce fighting bigger guys than him???? give me a prove, don't just believe what people tell ya. all bruce's friends and everyone said that bruce was the best in HIS size and weight class, no one said that bruce fought big monsters like there are today. he fought many extras on the set of enter the dragon, but why would they win, if they were any good, they would be the main guy. his friends say they never saw bruce lost to another guy, so were his friends with him ALL the time?, i doubt that. if bruce had died while making way of the dragon, they would have said that was the best, so that's why enter the dragon is over rated. bruce has compiled things he learned from different arts and combined them and made a new art with it. even if these days some one becomes far better than bruce, no one will accept it, people are too much obsessed with him, because he came before the people of today, ridicolous, bye

Answer 1

I just want to add one more thing to this thread that hasn't been brought up.

Alot of people are forgetting that Bruce Lee was also a wealthy celebrity. He couldn't go around defending his honor at the drop of a hat. Celebrities are constantly being hassled and setup so that they can later be financially raped. Stories like people jumping behind a celebrity's car while it's backing up, drunken idiots who want to prove how tough they are (many stories here: swayze, van damme, norris, snipes, etc...), others who **need** to make a name for themselves (like many UFC/MMA fighters), general incidents (HoganVsBeltzer, TysonVsGreen) and so forth.

Most celebrities involved in frivolous lawsuits stand the chance of losing millions. Street-fighting (or even a sparring session where Lee could have seriously hurt someone) could have cost him everything.

It's something to keep in mind when looking for sample closed-door fights, especially at a time when it would have cost him his career. Imagine Bruce Lee winning a street-fight (or closed door fight) but losing the money he made, his family, his career and doing jail time. Not smart and he was aware of this.

In spite of all of this and with all these restraints, Bruce Lee proved to *most* people **at the time** just how dangerous he was. There aren't many hollywood celebrities or wealthy people (action heroes, martial artists, wrestlers, etc) who can make this claim. In fact, I can't think of any - which makes Bruce Lee's legacy even more impressive. He remains the only fighter (martial artist or otherwise) who stands this tall with a foot in both worlds (the real and the scripted).

As an fyi... Bruce Lee once said that if he was ever in a street fight where he was pinned by a heavier and stronger man he would have bitten him. Now that's a street fight. It's dirty, it's about survival and anything goes.
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Answer 2

Bruce was a martial artist, not a fighter. There is a difference. Bruce was a student. He was constantly looking for the most efficient techniques regardless of what style they came from. When he first started compiling his book he was reluctant to give it a name because he feared that by calling it anything, he would be implying that it had boundries. Turned out, he was right. To this day, people say 'this is Jeet Koon Do and that is not'. I believe people are missing the essence of what he was trying to say.

I'll have to go back through my library, but if I recall, Bruce didn't break his back from a fight as seen in the movie. I believe it was a training accident and the producers thought the fight scene would be more exciting.

The point is that during his life, Bruce Lee never stopped learning martial arts. Had he been alive 10 years ago when the Gracies first came up with the UFC, he may have either accepted their challenge himself, or sent one of his students. Although, if you recall, there weren't any well known martial artists in those early tournaments. In those days, there were fewer rules which allowed the different styles to use whatever techniques they thought would work. Today, they use the term MMA, but in reality, it's sport fighting. Would today's UFC fighters be able to take on a SUMO wrestler like they did in UFC #2?

Bruce Lee has passed on. And because of that, we are left to speculate what he was and what he might have become. That is called a legend. Legends are often larger than life, because there is no limit to what a legend can be. He broke the mold and made a name for himself. He lived in a time and place where people were often required to fight. People didn't walk around with camera-phones or other recording devices like they do today. Whether Bruce did all the things people say or not, the fact that there are those that believe it was possible and strive to be like him makes him great.

Answer 3

I agree with you whole heartedly. I think that Bruce Lee has become "myth" and "legend" which is sad because I'm sure the guy had some amazing stories in his own right.

The first poster shows exactly why Bruce Lee is legend. Bruce did not hurt his back in a UFC type fight. That was a movie. Bruce Lee hurt his back doing weight training. Also, he did not have a "Big fight" at a tournament where he accepted all challengers. He did give a demonstration at a tournament to show some of his concepts of fighting.

I know that Bruce Lee was a great fighter probably. However he was not a great martial artist. That's where I'd like to point out that he died young. He died from a "mystery" but most evidence leads to simply burning out his body. He simply pushed too hard for too long.

Dan Inosanto, who was one of if not the top student, doesn't even teach JKD really. Why would one of the top students of the art abandon it. In Inosanto's own words (asked him this question at a jiu-jitsu seminar he was teaching) what Bruce did worked for him. It wasn't a style, it was just the way he fought. That's all JKD really was folks, the way Bruce Lee fought. He was small, fast, and capitalized on it. He also had excessively long arms for his height which he capitalized on as well. As far as the "abandoning tradition" part. I think that all systems (at least mine does) teaches at a certain point the difference between combative techniques and training techniques. The training techniques are meant to train your body, mind. They help you understand methods of navigating conflict. So Bruce's concept wasn't even really that new, it had been around for quite some time. I'd also like to point out that he DID have a traditional foundation to abandon. As any practitioner knows, at a certain point the basics become ingrained. You snap your techniques without realizing it, you shift your weight and stances without thinking about it. I imagine Bruce lee did the same. Watch him move, there's a lot of "technical" perfection in those movements, and that doesn't come from training freestyle on a bag. It comes from a traditional foundation.

I do respect the man greatly though. I wouldn't want him to hit me.

Also for everyone who throws out the "he had to slow down because he was faster than the camera." I'd just like to point out that camera's in those days sucked. Today's camera's have incredibly fast frame rates and are capable of seeing much quicker movement. Bruce Lee could not have moved faster than today's camera framerates (in my opinion, could be wrong.)

Answer 4

Bruce Lee in my opinion the greatest. He is first marital artist that I know of that realized there is more to martial artist than just striking. He knew the art of ground fighting before UFC, Pride, and etc. He did not believe in using flashy techniques if he had to get in a real fight. Everything he did that was flashy was for TV and movies. He believed if he got into a fight, the fight should last under a minute. Anything longer than that, he would considered as a loss. Not only was he incredible fast but he was incredibly strong for his size. This man could do several push ups with just using his thumbs. You may not agree that he is best marital artist ever, but for sure he set the standard for MIXED martial arts that occurs today.

Answer 5

For those who believe Bruce Lee had his back broken during a fight, you believe too much in Hollywood movies. That to me shows the mentality of the answerers here.

Bruce Lee was and is still great. People think he would not do well in MMA like UFC, but then they have to stop and think who came up with MMA as we know it? Bruce Lee!! Besides, whoever equates a real fight on the street to UFC has apparently never been in a real fight.

Bruce Lee was in a gang in Hong Kong. Getting into trouble and street fighting with the wrong people (relatives of powerful politicians) caused him to flee to the United States to escape prosecution.

So, let's see, started the concept of mixed martial arts as we know it today, was in a gang, got in trouble with the law for street fighting.... seems to me that he is a fighter as well as a martial artist and movie star.

People make a big deal out of him because he was the genuine article, conveyed his points effectively, and practiced what he preached. Was he the greatest? Maybe, maybe not, but the fact remains that he is still a big deal. I would wager that less than half of all martial artists would even be practicing if not for the popularity Bruce Lee brought to martial arts.

Answer 6

Chuck Norris, who was the champion full-contact kickboxer at the time, would regularly get beaten in kickboxing by Bruce. Also, according to various accounts, Bruce also got in a lot of street fights with bigger tougher guys (who had the same question you did) and really never lost. He was a real fighter.

Bruce's main contribution to martial arts was not his fighting ability, though - it was his innovations, blending of systems, removing the "magic" from the martial arts, and opening the dialog. He was training a genuine Mixed Martial Arts system based on "what works" before anyone.

Answer 7

it is almost an unanswerable question - we will never really know

Bruce was incredibly fast, skilled and powerful for a man of his size

but can a man that size really beat the giants fighting today?

I am 285 lbs lean muscle and hold several style black belts and have fought at UFC level and yes I think Bruce would kick my *** - i have great respect for him and people like ali
they were the greatest fighters of their time without a doubt

but cant compare different eras - professional athletes change so much

Answer 8

Nobody really knows how good he was.

There is precious little to go on. The only sparring video I've seen of him is this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aky-PLIEBQA

I don't know the skill level of his opponent, nor the condidtions.

Stories of his "challenge matches" have two sides, and statements from people who knew him or trained with him can be found saying he was good, and he was bad. This evidence is inconclusive at best so it really is for you to chose what you want to believe as popularity and movie contracts do not make one a good martial artist, this is not a factor to go on.
He has no fight record and fought unknown "challenge matches" like rickson gracie's claims to have over 400 undefeated, they cannot be verified.

Bruce lee did a lot for chinese actors paving the way for them.

As far as bieng the first MMA and person to not stick to one "style" that is just plain foolish as the romans did the same thing over 2000 years before he was born. And I'm sure the greeks and other cultures did as well but my knowledge of history jumps from australopithicines to the roman empire (my interests). I do think one of his major contributions to martial arts is to revive for modern times the concept of hard sparring with face targets.

Answer 9

Just a man like everyone else. What made him special is that he just was'nt some dumbass fighter( i know fighters and most are pretty dumb), he was smart and philosophical, he developed his own style and was innovative in his training , but he was'nt the greatest fighter ever, who the hell is the greatest fighter? When you find out, let me know because I have'nt seen them yet. He's charismatic and telegenenic and made good movies. Look at the things he did in his movie though, he was definately a world class athlete like the Ong Bak guy.

Answer 10

Bruce lee is great but not as a fighter. Well, Yip man (master of Bruce ) was way better than him. But what made Bruce great (not greatest) was the novelties he brought to western world.