A question to catholic brothers and sisters. Saints?

Question

Uhm i have a simple question, that is in my mind. Actually two questions.
One is this: "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" 1Tim 2,5
Now why do we need Mary/ to pray for us..if Jesus does it. I think His prayer is more than enough for us.
Second: what is it with patron saints? How did they become patrons, Who gave them the "authority"?
Please don't take this as an offensive question, as it isn't. I just want some answers that's all:).
God bless!

Uhm. How do you communicate with a "dead" (physically dead) man/woman?
I mean the only method I know is prayer. But that would mean praying to a man. Which is...well ...bad.
Wll if I ask a living person here on Earth to pray for me of course he/she will. i know that (I do it a lot of times).
Then you say I could pray to every person from Abraham to my dead grandmother?
I mean it is prayer..or that would be necromancy. Or what's it called? You know when we communicate with the dead...but that is occultism...and that's also a bad thing.
So I can't imagine how you communicate with them without committing sins? Praying to a human is bad. Occultism is bad. ...I'm out of ideas:D

Answer 1

I will try to answer your questions by responding to comments you made thusfar:

< Now why do we need Mary/ to pray for us..if Jesus does it. I think His prayer is more than enough for us.>>

We don't "need" to pray to Mary or the saints. Salvation is in Jesus Christ for He is the one and only mediator between us and the Father. But the fact that Jesus is the one and only mediator does not mean there cannot be intercessors.


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The Church declares certain people Saints so that Christians will have role models to follow. The method the Church has used to declare one a saints has changed over time. In the early Church, anyone who was martyred was declared a saint outright. Nowawdays, a saint is declared after a long process that, in some cases, can take years, decades, even centuries.


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No offense taken. Although, the tone of your question seems to indicate that, no matter what any learned Catholic may have to say, it is unlikely to make a difference in your opinion. I wish you would open your mind more to the possibility of intercessory prayer to the saints.


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You are right. You communicate with prayer. Even though a person's body is dead, their soul is eternal. Think of "life" and "death" in the spiritual sense; "life" meaning a soul that has gone to Heaven or Purgatory, "death" meaning a soul that has gone to hell. Do not limit the meanings of the terms "life" and "death" to the state of a temporary physical body.


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If God wills it, then it is not bad.


< Then you say I could pray to every person from Abraham to my dead grandmother?>>

Absolutely! Any soul that is not cut off from God completely, souls in Heaven or Purgatory, can heed the calls and prayers of those still on earth. The only reason they can hear them is through God because only God can bridge that supernatural gap that separates His spiritual eternal realm from this physical temporal realm.


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Necromancy is, I believe, sex with a dead body. Since souls are neither dead, nor have the physical characteristics necessary for sex, necromancy is irrelevant.


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Yes, that is occultism. Intercessory prayer does not concern prayer to the physical body of a saint. You are offering the prayer to that saint's living soul in Heaven. A saint's dead body is irrelevant.


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Perhaps these Bible verses and explanations will help:

God Desires and Responds to Our Subordinate Mediation / Intercessory Prayer
1 Tim 2:1-2 - because Jesus Christ is the one mediator between God and man (1 Tim. 2:5), many Protestants deny the Catholic belief that the saints on earth and in heaven can mediate on our behalf. But before Paul's teaching about Jesus as the "one mediator," Paul urges supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people. Paul is thus appealing for mediation from others besides Christ, the one mediator. Why?

1 Tim 2:3 - because this subordinate mediation is good and acceptable to God our Savior. Because God is our Father and we are His children, God invites us to participate in Christ's role as mediator.

1 Tim. 2:5 - therefore, although Jesus Christ is the sole mediator between God and man, there are many intercessors (subordinate mediators).

1 Cor. 3:9 - God invites us to participate in Christ's work because we are God's "fellow workers" and one family in the body of Christ. God wants His children to participate. The phrase used to describe "fellow workers" is "sunergoi," which literally means synergists, or cooperators with God in salvific matters. Does God need fellow workers? Of course not, but this shows how much He, as Father, loves His children. God wants us to work with Him.

Mark 16:20 - this is another example of how the Lord "worked with them" ("sunergountos"). God cooperates with us. Out of His eternal love, He invites our participation.

Rom. 8:28 - God "works for good with" (the Greek is "sunergei eis agathon") those who love Him. We work as subordinate mediators.

2 Cor. 6:1 - "working together" (the Greek is "sunergountes") with him, don't accept His grace in vain. God allows us to participate in His work, not because He needs our help, but because He loves us and wants to exalt us in His Son. It is like the father who lets his child join him in carrying the groceries in the house. The father does not need help, but he invites the child to assist to raise up the child in dignity and love.

Heb. 12:1 - the “cloud of witnesses” (nephos marturon) that we are surrounded by is a great amphitheatre of witnesses to the earthly race, and they actively participate and cheer us (the runners) on, in our race to salvation.

1 Peter 2:5 - we are a holy priesthood, instructed to offer spiritual sacrifices to God. We are therefore subordinate priests to the Head Priest, but we are still priests who participate in Christ's work of redemption.

Rev. 1:6, 5:10 - Jesus made us a kingdom of priests for God. Priests intercede through Christ on behalf of God's people.

James 5:16; Proverbs 15:8, 29 - the prayers of the righteous (the saints) have powerful effects. This is why we ask for their prayers. How much more powerful are the saints’ prayers in heaven, in whom righteousness has been perfected.

1 Tim 2:5-6 - therefore, it is because Jesus Christ is the one mediator before God that we can be subordinate mediators. Jesus is the reason. The Catholic position thus gives Jesus the most glory. He does it all but loves us so much He desires our participation.

Answer 2

The Saints in heaven and Mary are righteous and as the Bible says (James 5:16) "The prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much." So asking the Saints and Mary to pray for us is such a good thing. Not only do you come into a relationship with them but their prayer is strong because they are perfected in heaven. It's just like if I were to ask you to pray for me. You probably wouldn't tell me "no I wouldnt" Well it's the same thing. Your asking the saints to pray for your intentions. What an awesome grace we have been given! As far as patrons and saints read "How Saints are Made." by Dodds. It's a good, fun and easy read. God Bless!

Answer 3

Hi, yes Jesus is the mediator, and mediates for the forgiveness of our sins, Mary is an intercessor and cannot take away sin but She can bring our needs and prayers to Jesus Her Lord and Son in a way we cannot.
this applies also to the Saints and Catholic teaching states that God loves to grant spiritual favors through the Blessed Virgin and the Saints.
Patron Saints are elevated to this status by the authority of the Pope which is ratified by his authority as the successor of Peter.

Answer 4

1) For the same reason I might ask any Christian to pray for me. The Apostle's Creed is clear..."I believe in the Communion of Saints" - since St. Paul said that "death" does "not separate us from the love of Christ" and that "to be absent from the body (death) is to be at home with the Lord...) Who better to ask to pray for us than His Mother and those who died for the Faith (The Holy Martyrs) ?? There is only one "mediator" - but that's a legal term - indicating a will and testament. Look it up. Christ is the mediator, and He paid the price. We are still to pray for one another. That does not end when we die. It's called the Church Triumphant for a reason.

2) "Patron" saints are tradition alone....and it varies - there is no "authority" given - it's tradition alone. As a matter of fact....a Saint can be the "patron saint" of many things....

Answer 5

Catholics believe that by praying to Mary, she will intercede to God and Jesus for them. If one wants to pray to only Jesus, it is fine.

The patron saints became saints after a long process. The Pope and other church officials study the saint's life and decide if this individual 'qualifies' for sainthood. There are a number of 'requirements' including miracles. You could probably "Google" this and find out more.

The saints get their 'authority' from the Pope and those who worked on the canonization process. If you are referring to patron saints (like the Patron Saint of Teachers or the Patron Saint of Impossible Causes), this attribute is applied to how they lead their lives. Sometimes, it applies to how they died as well.

I hope this answers your questions. If not, you may want to ask a local parish priest or sister. Or, you could probably find a website dealing with Patron Saints and e-mail the webmaster for more information.

Answer 6

The way Catholics pray to Mary/the Saints is not the same as the way they pray to God.

The way Catholics "pray" to Mary is closer to a way a good Christian woman would send prayers to her dead husband. Clearly her dead husband has absolutely no religious significance, but he has incredibly important personal significance.

Similarly, the Saints are important in a human way, not a religious way. The Saints are mainly important as examples to live by, and also in addition one can call on a saint to pray for them.

Think of what would happen in a good Presbyterian family where a family member gets into a car accident. Every single family member would pray for the individual. To take a further degree of distance, I'm sure many people pray for people in need much further away.

To Look at the Hail Mary:
Hail Mary, full of grace,
the Lord is with thee;
blessed art thou amongst women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.

The first 2 lines recognize Mary as someone who has received Grace, something which I think every denomination takes for granted.

The 3rd line says that she is blessed "amongst" women:
Quote:
2) We believe Mary should be worshipped AMOUNG women not ABOVE women.

The 4th line says Jesus is blessed, something I think all Christians can agree on.

The last 3 lines are a request for intercession, the request for her prayers. Yeah, every protestant denomination is against her/the Saints praying for another's sins, but it's not a particularly huge difference. Small enough that one could consider it simply a denominational difference.

The idea of challenging the Catholic Church on its non-Biblical beliefs is a bit silly, especially considering that basically every school of Christianity maintains a belief in Creatio ex Nihilo, which isn't quite supported by the Bible.

Hope this helps :)

Answer 7

+ Mary and the Saints +

Catholics share the belief in the Communion of Saints with many other Christians, including the Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, Episcopal, and Methodist Churches.

The Communion of Saints is the belief where all saints are intimately related in the Body of Christ, a family. When you die and go to heaven, you do not leave this family.

Everyone in heaven or on their way to heaven are saints, you, me, my deceased grandmother, Mary the mother of Jesus, and Mother Teresa.

As part of this family, you may ask your family and friends here on earth to pray for you. Or, you may also ask the Blessed Virgin Mary, Saint Andrew, or your deceased grandmother in heaven to pray for you.

Prayer to saints in heaven is simple communication, not worship.

+ Patron Saints +

Some saints are recognized as patron saints of certain peoples, places, things, and occupations due to circumstances surrounding their lives.

For example:

People: Saint Peter was a fisherman before he became a fisher of men and is the patron saint of fishermen (and popes).

Place: Saint Patrick brought Christianity to Ireland and is the patron saint of Ireland.

Things: Saint Claire was near death and was unable to attend Mass, she turned in the direction of the Chapel. The wall between her and Chapel vanished and she was able to both view the Mass and participate. For this reason, she is the patroness of TV.

Occupation: Saint Matthew the Apostle was a tax collector and is the patron of accountants, bankers, bookkeepers, and, yes, tax collectors.

+ With love in Christ.

Answer 8

very often our faith and good work are somewhat lacking.this lack has an enormous effect on the amount of grace we get from Jesus who is sole mediator & is God the holy Mother makes up for that lack in a major way because her faith and goodness lack nothing at all.As for saints they too put give punch to our own personal prayers to God, all is obtained by the merits of Jesus who takes them to the father.

Answer 9

The Father, Jesus, and Holy spirit, who else do we need to pray too? God is more powerful then any man and hears our prayers. Jesus says

I like the Truth you have in you. Keep filling yourself with that which is incorruptible.

Answer 10

It is legitimate to ask others to pray for you, and it is scriptural.

http://www.allaboutprayer.org/intercessory-prayer.htm

In the case of Saints and Mary, they are people who are in Heaven - really good Christians who are so close to God they can actually see him. I've never been able to figure out why people say that asking such people to pray for you is really so bad.

You ask your friends on Earth to pray for you, don't you? So why not the saints in heaven?

Answer 11

There is but one mediator between God and man and that is Jesus. Well, all of these people are part of the Body of Jesus, so they can intercede too. Read the book of Esther, This is the Church who can enter the throne room at any time and intercede for her people. She has been given ....Up to half of his Kingdom... This includes the Virgin Mary and the Saints. Didn't he say to Paul ...." Why do you persecute ME?" He also said "What you do for the least of my brethren you do unto ME"