Levels of salvation theory...Holy Spirit download. Opinions?? please read, I worked hard on this! :-) ?

Question

Will try to keep this as short as possible. First off, we all know that the Bible is perfect, holy and has no contradictions, right? Of course! If you dont, please hit the "back" button on your browser.

"Whosoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." Stage one, ultra grace. For those to attain heaven through one prayer, maximum grace.

"Not all who call on me Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven." Now, we have an apparent contradiction. Or do we? These are for people who are more informed, read the word & have a spiritual awakening. They are at level 2. Must fulfill more, and be saved by "grace through faith". More than just grace.

"Only those who have been born again....of water and of spirit shall enter the kingdom of heaven" Highest level, #3. Born again, spirit filled. Baptized. .More knowledge, more responsibility. Grace, faith, 2 baptisms.

All in line with "leaders will be judged more severly" the more ya know, more it takes 2 be saved. Agree? :)

so lana, you dont believe in level one at all?? What does "whosover calls on the name of the Lord will be saved" mean to you then?

Answer 1

I think you are making a good point.

When you speak of 2 baptisms, how do you define them?

One by water and the other by fire? The born again theory is of interest in the sense that there is a change of some sort, a new life if you will.....but my question to you is? Do you consider these changes to be of a man-made ritual or do you consider them to be a life experience?

Some people are more informed than others on certain subjects, and when it comes to religion....it is too easy to close the mind off from new concepts. I do not believe the bible is contradictory....but I do not believe that reading a book can save anyone from anything. You were born first of all to live your life on this planet. Walk your own path....judge no-one and learn from everyone.

Peace!

Answer 2

First, to "call on the name of the Lord" is more than just saying his name. As you have already pointed out, Matthew 7 21 tells us that not everyone that says "Lord, Lord" will enter the kongdom of heaven, but he that DOES the will of God.

Notice the conversion of Saul (Paul) in Acts chapters 9, 22, and 26.

He spoke to Jesus and called him "Lord". He was then told to go into the city where he would be told what he "must do" to be saved. (Acts 9:6) In the city he prayed and fasted for three days. (Acts 9:9-11) At this point, however he had not yet been told what he must do and he had not "called on the name of the Lord".

I know this because Ananias came and told him "be baptized and wash away your sins CALLING ON THE NAME OF THE LORD". (Acts 22:16) Saul had not called on the name of the Lord until he had done the thing he was told he must do (be baptized).

To "call on the name of the Lord" means to rely on His authority. To do this we must follow his instructions. Saul had not done this until he was baptized.

Also, up to this point, Saul's sins had not been washed away. Since only the blood of Christ washes away sin (Romans 5:8-10, Rev 1:5), then obviously Saul had not contacted that blood.

The blood was shed at Christ's death (Rom 5:8-10). Romans 6-3-4 says at baptism, we are "baptized into Christ" and we are "baptized into his death". That is where we contact the blood. At that point, we also rise to walk a new life, or we are "born again". We cannot be saved if we are not "born again" (John 3).

We have not called on the name of the Lord until we have done what he instructs. Jesus said "he that believes and is baptized shall be saved". (Mark 16:16)

This is what is required of all who live after that command was given.

Answer 3

Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean that I should hit the back button. This is a place to share our views not dictate them.

Personally I agree with Preshus regarding translation accuracy. Over time it has been changed so much that it would be foolish to believe that it is PERFECT. And how could it be so when it was compiled by men who are imperfect? Nope sorry this is incorrect indeed! However it does not change the entire message behind it. In short, God is Greatest and there is only One God Alone. The scriptures teach us to serve God with a pure heart. Our salvation is merely something yet to be known to us. You cannot try to categorize this. YOU ARE NOT GOD NOR DO YOU HAVE THE AUTHORITY. When the Day of Judgement comes, man will rise from the grave and the living will walk among the dead to be accounted for their deeds. Only God Knows what is in the heart of man and only Go Knows if we are truly worthy of Paradise or Hellfire.

And for further reference don't go there because really it is a grave sin and though all of us would love to know our true destination after life, we can only know when our Day of Judgement arrives.

Answer 4

When I hear someone bring up levels of salvation, I think of the disciples arguing who's going to sit next to their master at the throne. Me? Me? Me?
I think about the agitation in today's christian community over 'The Rapture' --and the mention in Revelation of the 1200 (or 12,000, or it doesn't matter the number)...what distresses me is these little red hens running around saying they're in the number, and deciding who else is going to be included because afterall, THEY know.

Let's go back to Jesus' words. He said "It is not my place to say,." If that comes from MY master's lips, then who am I to assume I might know more than Him?

Yes, I get caught up in the conundrums: of knowing better "good Samaritans" who are not in the church, and wondering what's with them, vs those I socialize with on Sunday. And each of these groups has animosity for each other. Where does MY allegiance fall? To Christ. To Christ's example.

There's a humbling song by a contemporary artist that has the phrase "my face was among the scoffers" and it's a tempting place to be sometimes. I THINK this can be an opportunity for growth, not in shame or doubt or foolishness, but in faith, in leaning on not your own wisdom (or man's) wisdom...you know the rest of that scripture. I say I _think_ because I have doubts, overwhelming sometimes, too. Toss it all on the pile at His Feet.

Sounds lame to some, but that is IT in a nutshell. Job had scoffers, even his own wife.

Dangerous turf to start putting levels on things, even if it makes sense to you now, that's how indulgences popped into the fray, that's how the rift occurred in the early church...or how one angel decided there was a way to rate more than Michael or Gabriel..how there was a War in Heaven. We men love to compartmentalize and sort and sift. And that is what science is for. We love to rate with power or money. That is of man, of this world. Faith is "in the wind" and judgement is His. Don't quit trying, but do ask for divine guidance. And this concern will become more clear. I think you're using a Man measuring stick.

Answer 5

actually i dont believe the bible is infalibly the word of God, and it is definitely NOT perfect and/or complete! there are questions and mysteries of God that can never be found in the bible. neither jewish bible, or catholic bible or protestant bible or Mormon bible. However there are hindu scriptures that have more books than most Christian know of that may contain more mysteries of god and words of wisdom.
Salvation is FREE. but the requirement to enter the doorway is to repent and have faith. Of course salvation has LEVELs just as surely as the bible says there are 3 heavens in pauls words and 7 heavens in the proverbs of solomon. Or did David say it? i get those to mixxed up.
The mormons TEACH emphatically that there are 3 degrees of glory, wherein a person is reserrected into 9 degrees of varying resurrected bodies. I think each different kind of resurrected body has different kinds of rewards and abilities that are inherit in them, like being prgrammed into the DNA. However, the 3 degrees can also denote Status and authority and principalities. So salvation is compared to these different states of the resurrected body according to the faith and the ability to "overcome" all things. see Rev 21:7 and 3:21 Corrinthian 15:36,42-50

Answer 6

Sorry, David .. I couldn't resist. I just couldn't hit the "back" button.

How do we know the Bible is perfect and without contradictions? It was written by man and translated many times over. To err is human, yes? Perhaps not intentionally, but I think you must agree on that. (To err, is human.)

More knowledge, more responsibility? If you are saying that someone who *knows* what is correct and goes against it will be judged more harshly, versus someone who errs in ignorance ... well, of course. We are in perfect agreement. But I'm not sure that necessarily applies to *all* leaders. In some cases, yes, in all cases, no.

Good question!

Answer 7

Salvation is only by grace and not by works (Ep 2:8,9). Rom 10:4 And if by grace, then it is no longer works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work. If salvation has to be made more sure through work by faith or otherwise in whatever measure than salvation is longer by grace.
Your paragraph 3 is taken from Matt 7:21-23 Those mentioned here Jesus declared to them in verse 23 'I NEVER knew you.' If these people never knew Jesus I doubt that they were saved.
Born of the spirit referred to in your paragraph 4 refers to being born again when our spirit dead to God is made alive by the indwelling Holy Spirit in us forever.
The proper spiritual birth involves true repentance, heart faith in God, baptism in water and the Holy Spirit.
Heb 10:12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins FOREVER, sat down at right hand of God.
Heb 10:14 For by one offering He has perfected FOREVER those who are being sanctified.
Jesus salvation for us is perfect and forever. To believe otherwise is to denigrate the power of His blood and His work on the cross.
Christians are judged by God for rewards not for punishment for Jesus has taken the judgement for the punishment of all our sins, past, present or future on the cross. Those who have more is expected of them by God for greater reward..

Answer 8

There are so many things theologically out of whack with your theory that I've given up being able to respond. I think you're taking a lot of things from the Bible out of context.

Answer 9

Not all who call on Me shall be saved is comparable to " On that day, many shall say unto Me, Lord, Lord have we not done all of these things in Thy name, and I will say unto them, depart from Me for I never knew you." My point is, it is one thing to call upon Christ, it is quite another thing to believe in Christ as savior. Many people believe that they are earning their way to Heaven, and that by their good works and sacrifices they will be saved. These people see their savior in the mirror each morning. They are looking to themselves for salvation. Remember, the Bible says: "Not by the blood of bulls and goats shall any flesh be spared." Which illustrates that not our personal sacrifices but only by Christ's sacrifice are we able to be saved. "Not by righteous deeds that we have done." This verse illustrates that our works are not the issue in salvation, but the completed work of Christ. Repeatedly Scripture states---for by grace you have been saved. Grace is a word whose meaning is too often forgotten----it means "undeserved favor." So in answer to your question, salvation is the same for all of us, it takes a little more faith than no faith at all to be saved. If you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you can move mountains.

Answer 10

It really very simple when you look at it, It all come down to a choice, You ever want to be saved or you don't , You ever except the Lord Jesus as your Lord and saviour or you don't
you ever except that you are a sinner or you don't, But if you do make that choice then Wow just sit back and watch how things change in your life, at first you don't notes it that much but then you look back and you can see how much your life has changed for the better
May God bless you